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Old 01-14-2020, 10:09 PM   #101
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Best place to get the Pulsar Thermion XM 38?

Talk to Outdoor Legacy


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Old 01-14-2020, 10:11 PM   #102
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Talk to Outdoor Legacy


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Yep. Jason will get you hooked up. Prices are all the same across the board. I looked and looked for deals on a Thermion a while back and every single place had the same price. So I went with outdoor legacy bc they have great CS and reviews.
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:40 PM   #103
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Hey guys this is breaking news and I don't want to say a whole lot until I have all the details as hard fact but it appears that FLIR will be closing their OTS (Outdoor Tactical Systems) division that makes all the consumer/hunting thermal scopes. What does this mean exactly? Mainly, the FLIR brand of thermal scopes will no longer be produced and sold. I'm working with my FLIR contacts to get more information and I have full faith that they will be honoring all warranties since the greater FLIR corporation is a Fortune 500 company and their other divisions will remain intact and in operation.

More news when we have it.


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Old 01-15-2020, 06:37 AM   #104
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FLIR has a pretty good line of thermal scopes, wonder what caused this decision.


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Old 01-15-2020, 09:04 AM   #105
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Man I wish their video looked like that thru the eyepiece. Their videos are legit and so much better then the actual eyepiece.
My experience has been the opposite. I feel like there is some quality/clarity lost from what you see in the eye piece vs what it looks like after you downloaded it to your computer and then uploaded it to youtube. I will admit my experience has only been with Pulsar so I am not sure about the Flir.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:06 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Outdoor Legacy View Post
Hey guys this is breaking news and I don't want to say a whole lot until I have all the details as hard fact but it appears that FLIR will be closing their OTS (Outdoor Tactical Systems) division that makes all the consumer/hunting thermal scopes. What does this mean exactly? Mainly, the FLIR brand of thermal scopes will no longer be produced and sold. I'm working with my FLIR contacts to get more information and I have full faith that they will be honoring all warranties since the greater FLIR corporation is a Fortune 500 company and their other divisions will remain intact and in operation.

More news when we have it.


Jason
WOW. This is disappointing for the consumers on many levels. Competition encourages innovation for better products and helps us consumers out on price. This is like Ford, Chevy or Ram saying they are going to stop making trucks.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:13 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Fordnandez View Post
My experience has been the opposite. I feel like there is some quality/clarity lost from what you see in the eye piece vs what it looks like after you downloaded it to your computer and then uploaded it to youtube. I will admit my experience has only been with Pulsar so I am not sure about the Flir.
Yes that is true with Pulsar and Trijicon.

FLIR is the opposite to me and few others who seen them. Looks so much better on video after.

Quote:
Originally Posted by txoutdoorsman24 View Post
Yep. Jason will get you hooked up. Prices are all the same across the board. I looked and looked for deals on a Thermion a while back and every single place had the same price. So I went with outdoor legacy bc they have great CS and reviews.
False. Find the right person/company and some will bargain
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:29 AM   #108
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False. Find the right person/company and some will bargain




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Old 01-15-2020, 10:32 AM   #109
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Browsing Instagram this morning and saw this on Pulsarís feed, looks like Hans and Jason are already snooping around Shotshow!!!




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Old 01-15-2020, 01:03 PM   #110
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I got my fingers crossed Pulsar releases something in the mid 2k to low 3k range.
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Old 01-15-2020, 01:16 PM   #111
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Yes that is true with Pulsar and Trijicon.

FLIR is the opposite to me and few others who seen them. Looks so much better on video after.



False. Find the right person/company and some will bargain
Interesting and good to know on the Flir's. Has anyone else had the same experience as gingib with the Flir's?

I have heard that you might have warranty issues with the companies that will bargain with you. The manufacturer will want to know who you bought it from and see the receipt and if it isnt from a official retailer at their MAP pricing then you might have an issue.
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Old 01-15-2020, 02:44 PM   #112
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Interesting and good to know on the Flir's. Has anyone else had the same experience as gingib with the Flir's?

I have heard that you might have warranty issues with the companies that will bargain with you. The manufacturer will want to know who you bought it from and see the receipt and if it isnt from a official retailer at their MAP pricing then you might have an issue.
Yeah Iíve got a flir pts536 and on YouTube and they make it look comparable to trijicon on the videos, Iíve tried messing with every resolution adjustment and canít even come close to the YouTube video quality. Lol
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Old 01-15-2020, 03:22 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by gingib View Post
Yes that is true with Pulsar and Trijicon.

FLIR is the opposite to me and few others who seen them. Looks so much better on video after.



False. Find the right person/company and some will bargain
This guy
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Exactly my thought as well.
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Old 01-15-2020, 06:21 PM   #114
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Russ is correct. You're looking at $500+ for good digital night vision. Thermal starts at $1,900 and quickly jumps up into the $3,000+ range and goes up from there.


I know I sound like a broken record but....you've got to wait until the SHOT Show.lol But yes, I'd expect another Wraith model coming, this one with 4K resolution but at a significantly higher price. More details soon.


Jason
Will the newer Wraith be replacing the older one, or just an additional model?
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Old 01-15-2020, 06:38 PM   #115
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Great special! Thanks APR
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Old 01-15-2020, 06:40 PM   #116
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Flir!
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:59 PM   #117
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I got my fingers crossed Pulsar releases something in the mid 2k to low 3k range.
Me too! That Thermion XM38 is still too high for my budget.

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Old 01-15-2020, 10:03 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by RMW View Post
Yeah Iíve got a flir pts536 and on YouTube and they make it look comparable to trijicon on the videos, Iíve tried messing with every resolution adjustment and canít even come close to the YouTube video quality. Lol
Wow. That's crazy. Thanks for the feedback.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:52 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Russ81 View Post
Browsing Instagram this morning and saw this on Pulsarís feed, looks like Hans and Jason are already snooping around Shotshow!!!

Thanks Russ! We had a great time with the Pulsar guys up at their facility and we'll be heading out next week to Vegas for more meetings at SHOT with them. Lots of cool upgrades and stuff coming over the next few months.

As for the $2,500 price range optics....I'm sorry guys it just doesn't look like it's going to happen right now. If you sit down and have it all explained to you it really starts to make a ton of sense. It can be frustrating and Pulsar feels this pain too, they want to be in that price category, but that price range just isn't that easy for a whole lot of reasons.

- Jason
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Old 01-16-2020, 10:08 AM   #120
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Thanks Russ! We had a great time with the Pulsar guys up at their facility and we'll be heading out next week to Vegas for more meetings at SHOT with them. Lots of cool upgrades and stuff coming over the next few months.



As for the $2,500 price range optics....I'm sorry guys it just doesn't look like it's going to happen right now. If you sit down and have it all explained to you it really starts to make a ton of sense. It can be frustrating and Pulsar feels this pain too, they want to be in that price category, but that price range just isn't that easy for a whole lot of reasons.



- Jason


Whatís weird is the apex 38 two years ago was about $2500. Iíd think by now they could hold the price and increase the technology or keep the technology and lower the price.
Thanks for the informative updates as always.


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Old 01-16-2020, 10:52 PM   #121
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Whatís weird is the apex 38 two years ago was about $2500. Iíd think by now they could hold the price and increase the technology or keep the technology and lower the price.
Thanks for the informative updates as always.
I completely understand and I believe the Apex was the best value in any thermal rifle scope ever sold. There are a lot of factors, most of which I'm sure I'm not privy to but the factors I have been told about help you understand the constraints. Thermal prices have been dropping for years with the most dramatic drop happening in 2017 when Pulsar shocked and distrupted the market with the Core RXQ30V, the Apexes and the Trails, all at previously unheard of pricing. Since 2017, prices have been stagnant while image quality and features have been very slowing improving.

There have been a couple startup companies that have tried to enter the market with some pretty good quality $2,500 and $3,000 thermal optics but no one can seem to maintain that price for long.

I'm not saying no one will ever produce a $2,500 scope as good as the Apex again but what I am saying is I think you can't use the rest of the consumer electronic market as a measuring stick against this small niche industry of thermal optics. I believe the Apexes departure and lack of replacement (by anyone) for over a year shows that prices don't always go down. It might also require something like a downturn in the thermal market for manufacturers to figure out a way to sell for less. As much as I want lower prices, a downturn isn't good for any of us because it will most likely only be the result of a shift in our economy.

But....SHOT Show is next week and maybe someone else will surprise us but with FLIR's departure, I'm not sure who's left to do it. We'll just have to wait and hope and see what happens.

Jason
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Old 01-17-2020, 06:37 AM   #122
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I have the lowest model flir thermal and it looks just as bad on the eye piece as it does on the computer. But, for the price I like it and slaughter a lot of pigs with it.
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:50 AM   #123
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Got a nice sized coyote last night. Convergent Bullet and the Axion have been a game changer for us.
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Old 01-18-2020, 09:57 PM   #124
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Got a nice sized coyote last night. Convergent Bullet and the Axion have been a game changer for us.
Nice!!! The Convergent Bullet is legit.

Alright, I'm leaving in tomorrow (Sunday) for Vegas for the SHOT Show. I'll be there all week and super busy so updates and replies will probably be slow but I'll report back with any important info.

Be sure to check out The Late Night Vision Show on Tuesday, it's normally Thursdays but since SHOT starts Tuesday that's the first day we can release our interview with Pulsar/Sightmark.

- Jason
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:15 AM   #125
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Convergent bullet has been a game changer for me. At first I attributed its success to the animals hearing new calls but the success has continued leading me to believe it is the call. I have now used it at least 8 times and my success rate is substantially better than before. It has been pretty common that we have a 75% call in rate, we don't have that good of a kill rate but at least they are coming in.

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Old 01-20-2020, 10:37 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Outdoor Legacy View Post
I completely understand and I believe the Apex was the best value in any thermal rifle scope ever sold. There are a lot of factors, most of which I'm sure I'm not privy to but the factors I have been told about help you understand the constraints. Thermal prices have been dropping for years with the most dramatic drop happening in 2017 when Pulsar shocked and distrupted the market with the Core RXQ30V, the Apexes and the Trails, all at previously unheard of pricing. Since 2017, prices have been stagnant while image quality and features have been very slowing improving.

There have been a couple startup companies that have tried to enter the market with some pretty good quality $2,500 and $3,000 thermal optics but no one can seem to maintain that price for long.

I'm not saying no one will ever produce a $2,500 scope as good as the Apex again but what I am saying is I think you can't use the rest of the consumer electronic market as a measuring stick against this small niche industry of thermal optics. I believe the Apexes departure and lack of replacement (by anyone) for over a year shows that prices don't always go down. It might also require something like a downturn in the thermal market for manufacturers to figure out a way to sell for less. As much as I want lower prices, a downturn isn't good for any of us because it will most likely only be the result of a shift in our economy.

But....SHOT Show is next week and maybe someone else will surprise us but with FLIR's departure, I'm not sure who's left to do it. We'll just have to wait and hope and see what happens.

Jason
Anything in the low 3's?
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:42 AM   #127
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Anything in the low 3's?
Thermion xm38 is what Iím looking into buying. Just gotta wait until a couple stars align!
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:44 AM   #128
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Anything in the low 3's?
The Thermion XM38 is in the low 3's. I have the handheld XM30 that uses the same core as this scope. I am super happy with the picture quality considering it is a 320 resolution. I would imagine the picture quality would be better in this Thermion since the objective lense is bigger. Give Jason a call, he will get you set up.

https://outdoorlegacygear.com/produc...15935489376330
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:30 PM   #129
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The Thermion XM38 is in the low 3's. I have the handheld XM30 that uses the same core as this scope. I am super happy with the picture quality considering it is a 320 resolution. I would imagine the picture quality would be better in this Thermion since the objective lense is bigger. Give Jason a call, he will get you set up.

https://outdoorlegacygear.com/produc...15935489376330
Too much base mag for my conditions, I think.
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Old 01-21-2020, 06:16 AM   #130
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Default The 2020 Thermal & Night Vision Thread

Since Jason is probably drooling over new thermals in Vegas right now I'll post the link to TLNVS EP:90 where they talk with Sellmark


http://youtu.be/sAiRAnfH2tE

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Old 01-21-2020, 08:45 AM   #131
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I NEEEEDDDD to know what Pulsar is doing!!! Hurry up Jason...
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Old 01-21-2020, 09:41 AM   #132
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Too much base mag for my conditions, I think.
What is the base mag? I dont think you can get too much until you get to 3.5+
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Old 01-21-2020, 09:43 AM   #133
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What is the base mag? I dont think you can get too much until you get to 3.5+

I think itís 4X or close to that ballpark


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Old 01-21-2020, 01:32 PM   #134
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What is the base mag? I dont think you can get too much until you get to 3.5+
4.2. I'd like to be below 3, closer to 2. Longest ID is only gonna be about 300 yds. Less than 75 yd shots.
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Old 01-21-2020, 02:02 PM   #135
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While FLIR is getting out of the consumer market, Leopold, Sig, and some other larger companies are just getting into the thermal market, and that should bring prices down some of the next few years. To be honest, FLIR just isn't a company that services the consumer market well, and that kept them from being competitive on a price/quality basis.
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Old 01-21-2020, 04:11 PM   #136
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Trail LRF 2 from pulsar. I hope they got something else to still release.
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Old 01-21-2020, 05:40 PM   #137
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Do you know when you might get the Pulsar Thermion XP50 in stock?


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Old 01-21-2020, 05:55 PM   #138
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Too much base mag for my conditions, I think.
Check out this morning's late night vision show on youtube. They will be making XQ thermions that will have a lower base magnification. I do not believe they mentioned price but I am guessing they will be in the same price range as the XM 30.
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Old 01-21-2020, 06:02 PM   #139
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was hoping the new Wraith would come in a little less expensive. I think I heard them say $799
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Old 01-21-2020, 06:03 PM   #140
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Check out this morning's late night vision show on youtube. They will be making XQ thermions that will have a lower base magnification. I do not believe they mentioned price but I am guessing they will be in the same price range as the XM 30.
Yep, just watched it. Didn't mention price but the base magnification being lower on the XQ models than 4.2 and 5.5 is awesome! I'm in on the Thermion XQ38 for sure. Anxious to see the price though.

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Old 01-21-2020, 09:13 PM   #141
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was hoping the new Wraith would come in a little less expensive. I think I heard them say $799
I am sure it will still be great bang for the buck.
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Old 01-21-2020, 09:14 PM   #142
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Yep, just watched it. Didn't mention price but the base magnification being lower on the XQ models than 4.2 and 5.5 is awesome! I'm in on the Thermion XQ38 for sure. Anxious to see the price though.

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I thought they did mention the magnification....... I might have made that up tho.
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Old 01-21-2020, 09:17 PM   #143
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I thought they did mention the magnification....... I might have made that up tho.
They discussed the magnification just not the price.

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Old 01-21-2020, 10:38 PM   #144
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They discussed the magnification just not the price.

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Gotcha, I misunderstood your last post. Agreed they did not talk price. I couldn't imagine it being much more than the XM's since it is using an older thermal core.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:03 AM   #145
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What caliber/calibers do yall use for your NV/Thermal rigs?

I am wanting to build an NV(Wraith) rig on an AR platform. Trying to decide between .308 or 6.8SPC. This would be a multi use rifle, used for coyotes, pigs and deer.

Any input on which caliber would be best?
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:19 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by marshhunter View Post
What caliber/calibers do yall use for your NV/Thermal rigs?

I am wanting to build an NV(Wraith) rig on an AR platform. Trying to decide between .308 or 6.8SPC. This would be a multi use rifle, used for coyotes, pigs and deer.

Any input on which caliber would be best?
308 over 6.8 all day. we use 308 or 6.5cm for all thermal hunting. trying to find a new 308 for myself right now.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:23 AM   #147
DedDucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marshhunter View Post
What caliber/calibers do yall use for your NV/Thermal rigs?

I am wanting to build an NV(Wraith) rig on an AR platform. Trying to decide between .308 or 6.8SPC. This would be a multi use rifle, used for coyotes, pigs and deer.

Any input on which caliber would be best?
I use 6.8 spc, 7.62x39, and 308. Gotten to where I seem to carry the x39 most, do to ammo cost but it doesn't have quite the punch of the other two.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:43 AM   #148
Russ81
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Iím running a .308 right now, but seriously looking at 7.62x39 for hogs. Both are pretty cheap ammo and easy too find.

The KS-47 that palmetto state makes looks pretty dang good.


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Old 01-22-2020, 09:58 AM   #149
LMiz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marshhunter View Post
What caliber/calibers do yall use for your NV/Thermal rigs?

I am wanting to build an NV(Wraith) rig on an AR platform. Trying to decide between .308 or 6.8SPC. This would be a multi use rifle, used for coyotes, pigs and deer.

Any input on which caliber would be best?
I run my photon on a 6.8 and my thermal on 308

I get more one shot running kills with the 308 but the 6.8 is so much lighter when walking around and still does a great job dropping hogs
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:33 AM   #150
Fordnandez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marshhunter View Post
What caliber/calibers do yall use for your NV/Thermal rigs?

I am wanting to build an NV(Wraith) rig on an AR platform. Trying to decide between .308 or 6.8SPC. This would be a multi use rifle, used for coyotes, pigs and deer.

Any input on which caliber would be best?
My vote would be 6.5 Grendel since it is a AR 15 platform. Lugging around an AR 10 gets old pretty fast IMO but I am not a strong guy.
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