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    Time for adult arrows....

    I’m finally giving in...

    I am tired of a lack of penetration, I’m tired of chasing speed, and I’m tired of being afraid of a deer’s shoulder. I’m going to sprinkle a little Ranch Fairy dust on my setup. If you don’t know who he is, just search YouTube. He is a character, but presents a TON of information.

    I backed my bow down to 60lbs a few years ago after recovering from a torn shoulder, but feel its time to go back to 70lbs and up the FOC and grain weight, as well as transition to single bevel broadheads.

    I want to end up somewhere around 600gr-650gr total arrow weight with 20%+ FOC.

    I know I need to test out several different tip weights on a couple different shaft spines. Would a couple (each) 300 spine and 250 spine arrows work for that? I’m thinking of doing 100gr inserts in them (bare shaft) and paper tuning through Ethics Archery field point test pack to find the best match. (The test pack has 2/ea 200gr, 225gr, 250gr, 275gr, 300gr)

    My ultimate goal is to be confident to take the kill zone shot, regardless of animal angle.

    Has anyone else gone through this process to find the best spine to tip weight?

    Any suggestions beyond what I’ve already thought through?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    #2
    Originally posted by IkemanTX View Post
    I’m finally giving in...

    I am tired of a lack of penetration, I’m tired of chasing speed, and I’m tired of being afraid of a deer’s shoulder. I’m going to sprinkle a little Ranch Fairy dust on my setup. If you don’t know who he is, just search YouTube. He is a character, but presents a TON of information.

    I backed my bow down to 60lbs a few years ago after recovering from a torn shoulder, but feel its time to go back to 70lbs and up the FOC and grain weight, as well as transition to single bevel broadheads.

    I want to end up somewhere around 600gr-650gr total arrow weight with 20%+ FOC.

    I know I need to test out several different tip weights on a couple different shaft spines. Would a couple (each) 300 spine and 250 spine arrows work for that? I’m thinking of doing 100gr inserts in them (bare shaft) and paper tuning through Ethics Archery field point test pack to find the best match. (The test pack has 2/ea 200gr, 225gr, 250gr, 275gr, 300gr)

    My ultimate goal is to be confident to take the kill zone shot, regardless of animal angle.

    Has anyone else gone through this process to find the best spine to tip weight?

    Any suggestions beyond what I’ve already thought through?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'd so you're on the right track

    Comment


      #3
      Troy helped me build my 592 grain arrows last year. He had me do what you're doing now. He really doesn't mind you reaching out to him, if you hit a snag. Good luck.

      Comment


        #4
        What’s your DL? What bow are you shooting?

        Comment


          #5
          I never gave any thought to my arrow setup until I switched over to traditional archery. It is crazy what a well tuned arrow can do out of a longbow with what would be considered a "slower" bow. I wish I would have taken the measures you are now when I still was shooting my compounds.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Big Ace View Post
            What’s your DL? What bow are you shooting?


            I am shooting a PSE decree HD at 27” draw length


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

            Comment


              #7
              My buck 2 years ago was super close range from a 20 feet, I clipped spine from above, and only got another 3 inches of penetration. He was paralyzed from the front legs back. I stuck a second arrow though the lung cavity with him pinned to the ground, and still didn’t get a full pass through.

              I was (and still am) shooting a 400 spined carbon express “hunter” 250. My 2018 buck was with a 100gr head, my 2019 buck was with a 125gr head. I added 25 grains thinking that would do something... how naive.

              My buck this year died within 80-85 yards, but I attribute that to luck. He was shot from 18 feet up a tree at 12 yards while slightly quartering away. I hit extremely high and back, behind the diaphragm, and EXITED at the red dot in the picture below.



              I BARELY clipped the top left lung. This deer should have lived for hours. The only thing that saved me was clipping an artery near the spine, and perforating the diaphragm.

              What led to this...?

              1) He came through fast. From first sighting, to arrow release, was probably 25 seconds max. I didn’t have my bow in hand beforehand, I wasn’t truly settled, and I shot through a nasty thick “hole”, probably clipping some smilax vines. Aka... my point of impact wasn’t perfect. See video below... this was my initial shooting lane, but I wasn’t settled yet. The video starts within 5-10 seconds of my first visual, and I shot within a few seconds of the ending. My initial intention was to shoot the animal with the video rolling, but “best laid plans” and all....




              2) I am shooting a 400 spine carbon express “pile driver hunter” arrow, which neither “piled” nor “drived” my deer. In fact, My arrows literally went wobbly by switching from 100gr to 125gr montech G5’s. Talk about noodle shafts... This arrow (I have now figured out) went to wobbling again once it hit the 3 ribs it ended up contacting. Every wobble stole penetrating power through both deflection and resistance with the muscle/connective tissue.

              3) I didn’t have enough total mass... I thought that my 480 grains would be enough, but after clipping 2 ribs on the way in and 1 rib on the way out... my arrow lost steam just after the blades cut the outside of the exit side of the deer. The arrow stalled while it plugged both holes. Thank goodness I didn’t need to follow a blood trail, because the only blood that came out was through his nose/mouth. He broke the broadhead side of the arrow 45 yards after impact on a sapling he slammed into, and the nock side came out at 60 yards in some brush.

              Take aways:
              A lot of guys look at 480 grains as more than enough. BUT, I was afraid of the shoulder and pulled back too far into the body cavity to compensate. Even WAY back in the body cavity, where I only had ribs to deal with, I didn’t have enough mass or cutting power with 480 grains of wobbly arrow shaft. This is with cut on contact fixed blades.... I can’t imagine I would have recovered this deer with mechanicals. Most of my public land shooting lanes (since I can’t legally, and don’t, trim shooting lanes) are 10-15 yards wide at the max. If a buck is cruising for does, he will cover that 15 yards in a couple of seconds. I can’t rely on a perfect shot, on a moving animal, over a 2-3 second time period. I NEED penetration power instead, so I can plant a “center of mass” shot on the vitals regardless of leg/shoulder placement.

              I hope this has fully explained why I need a bulletproof, deep penetration, kill EVERYTHING kind of setup. I know that with PERFECT placement, rage heads cause massive damage... I just can’t plan on perfect placement, or perfect conditions.

              On a lighter note..... here is a better look at my first Pope and Young buck. And, he happens to be a public land Pope and Young. I kinda personally consider him equivalent to a guided/private land booner... I hope that doesn’t offend anyone.





              He went 132 7/8” gross and 130” net,
              Thank GOD for mass measurements!
              He kept his weight out through all of his tines, more like a Kansas deer than a southern oklahoma/Northern are as deer!




              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

              Comment


                #8
                I started down this rabbit hole last year.. just ordered some 250 spine arrows And the test pack. Right bow I'm shooting 490 gr. With 15 % foc. I just don't want to get so heavy that the arrow trajectory hinders me hunting in thick areas.. I don't hunt over a feeder with known yardage.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Just a heads up:

                  @650g you will be hurling that log at around 215 FPS

                  You do you and have fun experimenting and learning. Like politics, the truth is in the middle. 400g and even lighter kill and pass through 1000000000 of animals. No amount of weight makes up for poor shooting or just bad luck.

                  If you hunt a known yardage “bait/feeder” your trajectory won’t be a big deal. But from experience I fear no deer or pig shoulder with box store broadheads light poundage and 28” draw (385gr arrow)... (testing 405 now, for flight purposes only)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I shot the grizzly stick alaskans until I ran out of them. I just made a dozen arrows using the carbon express piledriver ds hunters. 635 grains total weight 18% foc.

                    350 shafts, 125 grain heads (cutthroat broadhead), 150 grains of insert, wraps, knocks and vanes are about 38 grains.

                    I'm shooting a 2009 martin cheetah set at 60 lbs and 26 or 27" draw length.

                    Shot over the chrono this weekend for a blazing 182 fps.


                    I downloaded the OT2Go Spine app to help make sure my set up would work.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      #1: I would get your bow and arrow tuned properly. Lack of penetration from tuning issues will get you know matter how much arrow mass weight you shoot.

                      #2: I wouldn’t be scared of a whitetail shoulder w/ 480 grains.

                      #3: With a short draw of 27”, you can build high FOC arrows with relative ease.

                      #4: For my hunting purposes, I would try to balance your arrow mass weight to speed ratio. I.E. shoot the heaviest arrow that you can within your own arrow trajectory limits.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I remember being in the same boat several years ago. Fun stuff but I’ve got no time for all the testing anymore, now I just know what works.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Big Ace View Post
                          #1: I would get your bow and arrow tuned properly. Lack of penetration from tuning issues will get you know matter how much arrow mass weight you shoot.

                          #2: I wouldn’t be scared of a whitetail shoulder w/ 480 grains.

                          #3: With a short draw of 27”, you can build high FOC arrows with relative ease.

                          #4: For my hunting purposes, I would try to balance your arrow mass weight to speed ratio. I.E. shoot the heaviest arrow that you can within your own arrow trajectory limits.


                          My current setup is tuned REALLY well at 455grains, the 480 pushed the spine just enough to get some tear away on paper tuning, but not in a predicable direction. If I’m shooting the 100 grain broadheads/field tips it shoots bullets through paper.

                          With 2 penetration issues in a row on the main body cavity, I definitely won’t be trying out a scapula with this setup.

                          I completely agree that high FOC will be easier for me with my short draw. Bonus points for me!

                          I am expecting to end up around high 500’s to low 600’s grains on the high side, but would be willing to go as high as 650 if the arrow tunes and shoots better than the lower weights.

                          It will definitely end up shooting a lot slower than I currently shoot, but I don’t see even 650 grains getting me too slow to effectively shoot to 35 yards. Worst case scenario, I run a 4th pin to get to 35 instead of my current 2 pins to 30.


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Big Ace View Post
                            #1: I would get your bow and arrow tuned properly. Lack of penetration from tuning issues will get you know matter how much arrow mass weight you shoot.

                            #2: I wouldn’t be scared of a whitetail shoulder w/ 480 grains.

                            #3: With a short draw of 27”, you can build high FOC arrows with relative ease.

                            #4: For my hunting purposes, I would try to balance your arrow mass weight to speed ratio. I.E. shoot the heaviest arrow that you can within your own arrow trajectory limits.
                            the good thing about shooting such a slow arrow is that deer are great at moving out of the way! so you won't have any penetration problems any more, of course this is because you will hit mostly air most of the time.
                            i shoot 53-58 pounds and about 300gr of arrow weight and i shoot the biggest modified home made mechanicals i can create, and i don't have penetration issues, my kids shoot far less energy also shoot mechanicals (search my user name) and they don't have any "issues" either
                            its less about whats pushing the broadhead and a hell of a lot more important whats in front of it.
                            before you listen to all of the junk about shooting herculean setups maybe just listen to what works for kids slaying deer with 13-14lbs of KE

                            tune you bow, shoot fast and shoot sharp that is the best recipe i know of

                            i was shooting 75-80lbs before i started helping my kids, then after i figured that out i thought why the heck would i shoot heavy when i have them by about 6-8" of draw length?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Definitely on the right track. Check out Grizzly sticks

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