First custom rifles groups

[bboswell]

Honestly, with a custom rifle and those results, I’d look at a different powder or try to tighten up your reloading process. There’s some pretty large ES values on some of those charges that I wouldn’t be happy with.

Are ES numbers not more relevant to components and process than the gun build?

[BlackdirtCowboy]

Absolutely. That’s why I advised him to try different powder(components) or tighten up his reloading process. My point was a custom rifle should be capable of better groups across the board than what he was seeing. So he needs to try different powder, bullets, processes, etc. He did say it was virgin brass. It’s usually best not to do load development with virgin brass as that introduces a variable and can explain some of the ES values.

[canny]

I’d take the 73g (13&14) and start playing with your seating depth. Those weren’t your tightest groups but they are hitting in a nice triangle, especially 13. Should be able to tighten those up with by playing with the seating depth.


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[trophy8]

#7 and #13 based on SD.

[bboswell]

Absolutely. That’s why I advised him to try different powder(components) or tighten up his reloading process. My point was a custom rifle should be capable of better groups across the board than what he was seeing. So he needs to try different powder, bullets, processes, etc. He did say it was virgin brass. It’s usually best not to do load development with virgin brass as that introduces a variable and can explain some of the ES values.

OK. We are on the same page, I thought you were indicating there was a rifle issue.

[Mike D]

I wouldn’t sweat anything, especially a .29” group on a new barrel, virgin brass , SAAMI length, etc…

Honestly the folks that can shoot a group smaller than that are few and far between.


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[Slick8]

I'd be looking at 13-16 as you have a wide node that can possibly be further refined.

I'll take that wide node averaging .6-.7 in a wide node over the .29 with 1 inch groups on each side of it.

That bakes in a lot of forgiveness into your load.

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[TXCASTNBLAST]

I’d take the 73g (13&14) and start playing with your seating depth. Those weren’t your tightest groups but they are hitting in a nice triangle, especially 13. Should be able to tighten those up with by playing with the seating depth.


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^^
Single Digit ES, I'd start with .020 jam, and load every .010 out to .020 of Jump.
In my experiences with ELD's an Berger's VLD's , they have performed better the deeper they are set into the lands.

I would venture to say your barrels speed node for this bullet is between 2990 and 3010.
I've done a handful load work ups for several buddies 300 win mag's, and I would definitely try a slightly slower burning powder if you are looking for anything over 3000.
RL-22 and IMR 7828SC would be my next powder suggestions before going with H1000.

[RifleBowPistol]

It sounds like your process is good, I would add, doing some light bore cleaning after each group. Just so the next group, starts off with the same barrel condition. Make sure the bore is dry before you start the next group.

You have one group in there that looks pretty good, odd there is only that one group. I would have expected more groups like that, with the barrel cooling process you are doing.

If you have not even started working on bullet seating depth and have only tried one powder and one bullet, you have a long ways to go. I am going to say the gun will shoot some extremely tight groups, once you get everything dialed in.

Seat the bullets closer to the lands, clean the bore between groups, let the bore dry. Likely try some different powders and bullets. I assume you chose a rate of twist in the barrel, that works very well for 200 gr. bullets, in the velocity range you should be achieving?

Don't know how you prepped your cases, I used to take a bunch of once fired, through my rifle brass. Then deprime, and resize them all, trim them to the proper length. Make sure the primer pockets are clean. Run the cases through a tumbler to clean the insides of the cases. Don't prime the cases. Then I would weigh all of the cases, on a digital scale and mark the weight on them. Then line them up by weight. I would do this with typically 300 cases. Then I would pick out about 50 cases, that have the least variation in weight. Those are the cases I would load for my rifle. All of these cases need to be of the same brand and preferably the same lot, at least the same brand.

Doing this will give you better results overall, in the end. The closer the case volume is to the same, the easier it will be to produce the same pressures, and then velocities. The you need to be very meticulous on weighing and dumping the powder charge. Then work on bullet seating depth. Don't want powders that the pressures change greatly with small changes in powder charge size. If you can get your variation in velocity down below 10 fps, for all of your shots, you are getting pretty good. I have had some loads for some guns, that only varied about 3 fps, to 4 fps for all of my shots. When your velocity variation gets down that tight, you are getting very consistent pressures. That's a basis for very good accuracy. But then you need the right bullet for the caliber, barrel, then the right seating depth, for that bullet.

If you take the time to do everything you can make every round as consistent as possible, then factor out as many variables as possible. It's an involved process, but the end result is noticeably more accurate rifle and ammo.

When other guys are just looking at group size and not looking at case volume, and getting the velocity variation down as tight as possible. Those guys will never see great accuracy. They can spend $5,000 on a gun and will get outshot by guys with $1500 in their gun, if the guy with the $1500 gun puts the effort into getting the most out of his rifle. But when you spend a lot of money on having a custom rifle built, That thing should be capable of some seriously tight groups, with the ammo you planned to use in that gun, once you take the effort to get there.

When you spend a lot of money on a custom built rifle, you should be feeding it the best ammo you can build, is specially loaded up for that rifle. Guys that spend a lot of money on a rifle and then run factory ammo through are never going to see that gun's potential, they are never going to get close to that gun's potential. At the same time, if you don't put much effort into your handloads, you are probably not going to get much better than factory ammo, other than maybe getting the bullet seating depth closer, which can do quite a bit. But when you have quite a bit of pressure variation from shot to shot, you are not going to see the potential of a gun.

Good luck, I would say you have a very well built gun there, should be able to shoot some seriously tight groups. If anyone tells you that, what you are getting is as good as you can get from a 300 Win. Mag, they don't know what is possible.

[Jamerendino]

Thanks guys. Overall i think i'm going to take 72.5, 73 and 73.5 charges back to the range. I'll have my 50 rounds of once fireformed laupa brass. That will leave me 16 rounds per charge. I'll do (5) 3 round groups with different seating depths per charge. I'll repeat the seating depth groups across my charge groups. There even numbers so one group will have 4 rounds. I normally shoot Laupa brass, but never have weighed cases so i'll add that to my process and get each group with its closest weight brother. The rest of the mentions i do in my reloading process, i use a autocharger so its quite simple for powder.

my buddy also mentioned my next range visit i should shoot without my magnetospeed. We know it affects POI but he said he might be affecting grouping. I guess it can't hurt to loose my fps data to true that logic.

thanks for the help! I love the feedback.

[trophy8]

Thanks guys. Overall i think i'm going to take 72.5, 73 and 73.5 charges back to the range. I'll have my 50 rounds of once fireformed laupa brass. That will leave me 16 rounds per charge. I'll do (5) 3 round groups with different seating depths per charge. I'll repeat the seating depth groups across my charge groups. There even numbers so one group will have 4 rounds. I normally shoot Laupa brass, but never have weighed cases so i'll add that to my process and get each group with its closest weight brother. The rest of the mentions i do in my reloading process, i use a autocharger so its quite simple for powder.

my buddy also mentioned my next range visit i should shoot without my magnetospeed. We know it affects POI but he said he might be affecting grouping. I guess it can't hurt to loose my fps data to true that logic.

thanks for the help! I love the feedback.

Never do load work with that MS attached. You can flush everything but velocity down the toilet on your first test if it was attached. This is why I went to a labradar.

Watch speed. A tiny group at 100 with poor SD will open up significantly at distance.

For a hunting rifle DO NOT JAM into the lands. Been there done that. Can pull the bullet out of the case. Then you get to figure out your truck antenna does fit down a 30 call barrel to knock the bullet out .

[Jamerendino]

Never do load work with that MS attached. You can flush everything but velocity down the toilet on your first test if it was attached. This is why I went to a labradar.

Watch speed. A tiny group at 100 with poor SD will open up significantly at distance.

For a hunting rifle DO NOT JAM into the lands. Been there done that. Can pull the bullet out of the case. Then you get to figure out your truck antenna does fit down a 30 call barrel to knock the bullet out .

Thanks man. Have you ever tried with or without MS same loads, on a test to see group results? I understand the harmonics and POI but assumed grouping wouldn't be affected that much.

[BlackdirtCowboy]

With my magnetospeed, groups remain the same, but there is a significant POI shift. I do all my load development without the magnetospeed. When I’m happy with my load, then I attach it to get velocities so I can start gathering my dope.

[Cajun Blake]

Well done sir ..... 2,969 fps appears to be your accuracy node

you can possibly tighten or open group size by experimenting with neck tension on the seated bullets. What is the chambered neck diameter ... .342" ? Your Lapua brass should have neck walls that measure from .014" ~ .015". Without neck turning the brass, your seated round likely measures .337" ~ .338". Neck bushings will control the tension of the seated bullet. I use Whidden and Redding Type S FL bushing dies for this reason. I also neck turn most of my brass since I'm addicted to accuracy and want all my variables to remain constant.

[bboswell]

Never do load work with that MS attached. You can flush everything but velocity down the toilet on your first test if it was attached. This is why I went to a labradar.

Watch speed. A tiny group at 100 with poor SD will open up significantly at distance.

For a hunting rifle DO NOT JAM into the lands. Been there done that. Can pull the bullet out of the case. Then you get to figure out your truck antenna does fit down a 30 call barrel to knock the bullet out .

X2 on everything he said down to making the switch to LabRadar