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Ideal Herd Composition and Numbers

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    Ideal Herd Composition and Numbers

    I have been trying to do the math to determine what a health deer herd should look like as far as age and doe/buck ratios go, primarily so I have an idea of how many does we should take each year and how many mature bucks we should realistically expect to be able to take, on average, each year.

    I know the answer to that depends on many factors, including mortality from neighboring properties, fawn mortality, range conditions, supplemental feeding, and whether or not it is fenced. But I'm trying to ignore those questions to get a baseline understanding of what an typical, managed herd should look like.

    Assuming you have 100 deer (not counting fawns), what would be the ideal mix of does to bucks? And out of that, how many 1 (1.5, but I'm avoiding using .5's), 2, 3, 4, 5, 6+ year old bucks would you expect to have?

    #2
    dang interesting question. cant help with that kinda math but i am in for responses

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      #3

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        #4
        I don’t know, and even the state biologists don’t seem to either, because when my place was MLDP, they wanted me to kill five does every year on my 217 acre place. Even a dummy like me knew that was too many. We averaged two a year for ten years and never had too many does. I was MLDP for three years and didn’t re-up.

        Now, under the new rules, only one doe could be killed on that very same place. Go figure...

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          #5
          I believe the simple answer is 50 bucks and 50 does. Obviously there are more factors, such as predators, killed by road traffic, old age, your neighbor shot it, etc. You also need to factor in how much food/forage you have on your land (or the surrounding area) to support such a deer herd. Yes, I went to school for this, and its a very debated topic. Ask 50 people and you will probably get 50 different answers.

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            #6
            Originally posted by hog_down View Post
            I believe the simple answer is 50 bucks and 50 does. Obviously there are more factors, such as predators, killed by road traffic, old age, your neighbor shot it, etc. You also need to factor in how much food/forage you have on your land (or the surrounding area) to support such a deer herd. Yes, I went to school for this, and its a very debated topic. Ask 50 people and you will probably get 50 different answers.

            In no way am I "bashing you" or anything of that sort...but I've talked/thought long and hard about this over the years as well. In my opinion, in the OPs hypothetical of 100 deer, 50b/50d doesn't work. That gives you (in my opinion) too many fawns dropping every year. In the OPs hypo, to stay at a 50 buck number, you cannot have 20-25 buck fawns hit the ground every year. It doesn't work. If another one of your goals was to harvest what your fawn crop is annually... you'd be forced into doing LOTS of killing (i.e. killing 50% of your buck herd annually).

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              #7
              Others on here might tell me I am wrong, and maybe I am, but we run about 50-55 does on our place and 80-90 bucks.

              Our buck herd distribution right now is like so, and this might not necessarily be what we intended but this is what it looks like this year (we lost a handful of old bucks this summer):

              7s: 3
              6:12
              5:11
              4:16
              3:20
              2:20
              1: 6-8 (we had terrible fawn crop this year for a variety of reasons)


              I'd be interested in seeing other people's opinions or distributions. Could be a good thread with lots of good info IMO
              Last edited by Daddy D; 11-06-2019, 04:33 PM.

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                #8
                Keep in mind state biologist don't give a rats rear about heard health

                They care about the forage quality... So they are always going to suggest less animals on it.

                100 deer... I think it would be something like 75-25 with as equal a distribution through the ages as you could get ...

                Low doe number intensify and shorten rut so that's less stress on bucks

                Honestly my target would be 100 deer but all bucks would get a pass until 3... So I would always carry a bit over. And I'd be ok with that

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                  #9
                  Thanks for the comments so far. Using the 100 deer number, let’s assume 100 adult deer is the maximum carrying capacity without hurting the habitat.

                  Ultimately, I am trying to figure out the best herd composition that will maximize the number of mature (5+, or preferably 6+ year old bucks) that can be taken each year.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by J Wales View Post
                    Thanks for the comments so far. Using the 100 deer number, let’s assume 100 adult deer is the maximum carrying capacity without hurting the habitat.

                    Ultimately, I am trying to figure out the best herd composition that will maximize the number of mature (5+, or preferably 6+ year old bucks) that can be taken each year.
                    It's difficult to address while ignoring all the variables you listed. So, here's some general rules of thumb.

                    Set a population goal as you desribed above (carrying capacity). This is kind of a situation of - "what came first, the chicken or the egg?"

                    Let's start with chicken - If doe are harvested at a rate sufficient to maintain population size, and bucks are allowed to reach 6+ years, then the end result, over time, will inadvertently settle around a 1:1 to 1:1.5 sex ratio. Life is harder on bucks.

                    Let's start with egg - A 1:1 sex ratio is a goal. Doe are harvested at a rate sufficient to maintain population size, as well as bucks allowed to reach 6+ years, then the end result, over time, will be around a 1:1 to 1:1.5 sex ratio.

                    You end up in the same place.

                    Old bucks can't exist in "good numbers" without a light harvest of bucks, thereby carrying a good proportion of bucks in the herd is necessary. At the same time, there must be enough doe to produce fawns for future mature bucks while still controlling population growth potential through doe harvest.

                    So, if no more than 50% of the adult deer are doe, then population growth can be more easily controlled, while maximizing potential fawn production. With that said, sex ratio should not be used as a goal; rather set adult population goal with no more than half being doe, then let the bucks reach maturity, and like I said, that will inadvertently settle at around 1:1 to 1:1.5 buck:doe ratio.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Top Of Texas View Post
                      It's difficult to address while ignoring all the variables you listed. So, here's some general rules of thumb.

                      Set a population goal as you desribed above (carrying capacity). This is kind of a situation of - "what came first, the chicken or the egg?"

                      Let's start with chicken - If doe are harvested at a rate sufficient to maintain population size, and bucks are allowed to reach 6+ years, then the end result, over time, will inadvertently settle around a 1:1 to 1:1.5 sex ratio. Life is harder on bucks.

                      Let's start with egg - A 1:1 sex ratio is a goal. Doe are harvested at a rate sufficient to maintain population size, as well as bucks allowed to reach 6+ years, then the end result, over time, will be around a 1:1 to 1:1.5 sex ratio.

                      You end up in the same place.

                      Old bucks can't exist in "good numbers" without a light harvest of bucks, thereby carrying a good proportion of bucks in the herd is necessary. At the same time, there must be enough doe to produce fawns for future mature bucks while still controlling population growth potential through doe harvest.

                      So, if no more than 50% of the adult deer are doe, then population growth can be more easily controlled, while maximizing potential fawn production. With that said, sex ratio should not be used as a goal; rather set adult population goal with no more than half being doe, then let the bucks reach maturity, and like I said, that will inadvertently settle at around 1:1 to 1:1.5 buck:doe ratio.
                      This what we aim for - 1 to 1:1.5 on 9000 acre LF ranch

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                        #12
                        75 bucks and 25 doe, only the biggest and baddest get the ladies

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Huntingfool View Post
                          This what we aim for - 1 to 1:1.5 on 9000 acre LF ranch
                          Just to make sure I'm being clear, as that was a long winded post, sex ratio shouldn't be a goal. Aiming for a ballpark sex ratio is cool, but increasing or decreasing buck or doe harvest solely to achieve a sex ratio is an error. A close sex ratio is just the bi-product of good bullet management.

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                            #14
                            Ideally you want a 1:1 buck to do ratio so 50 bucks and 50 does. Out of the bucks you want a good representation of each age class. As far as specific numbers of each age I don’t really think it matters.


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                              #15
                              You need to define your property on habitat....perform deer counts and find out how many deer per acre you have....we like to be 1 deer per 15-18 acres for managing for trophy deer, (more food for less mouths), we don't mind seeing less deer. But if you like seeing many deer and your land can feed more then you might want to get to 1 deer per 10 acres, ( more animals to feed). Its not hard to figure out, you need to perform deer counts, TPW biologist can help you get started for free. Once you know your carrying capacity then you know how many deer need to come off every year to maintain that amount.

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