Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Aging deer by the lower jaw.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    Originally posted by lovemylegacy View Post
    I will, I will!

    Scenario 1; If the tooth estimate show bucks being 3-5 years of age, that is bucks being taken before all of their potential has been exhausted. I think the solution is to convince the hunters next season, to take a bunch of doe and to bypass taking bucks for one season, unless a "wallhanger" shows his face. Presently, now start planting plots and add some supplemental feed and possibly add some minerals stations. However the plots and minerals will take years to show a difference. Letting bucks walk requires some discipline but is the quickest way to see an improvement.
    Well done!

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by lovemylegacy View Post
      Scenario 2; Based up on your info, let the doe live for a year and allow the hunters to take a "normal" quota. It seems that a lot of pressure has been put on doe harvest....uhoh, there's that word. In effect, they have successfully lowered the age range of the doe. Give them a break.

      One word on tooth aging. I don't think teeth from a 3-5 year old deer from the Hill country will look the same as 3-5 deer from the Mid West simply because of food types. In the Hill Country, deer eat a lot of corn right off the ground, chewing a lot of sand, thus increasing tooth wear. So I think it has to be a regional comparison standard.

      Im not a big fan of tooth wear aging simply because 90 percent of us have no idea how to judge them properly. Then next thing you know you are kicked off a lease by someone in that 90 percent.
      Well done again!

      In both scenarios and with no regard for region or soil type, tooth wear aging guided good decisions in management. 1) Let bucks get old, regardless of antler size, by improving field aging abilities. 2) Reduce doe harvest and re-evaluate population estimate methodology.

      Follow the link below. Scroll down to "A Guide To Age Determination of Whitetail Deer". Learn terminology and methodology. Use the technique within the bounds of its limitations keeping in mind the deer haven't read it.

      Information about White-tailed Deer in Texas. Research and Game Management, Hunting information, publications and general resources.


      Go hunt and keep it fun!

      Comment


        #33
        Thank you.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Top Of Texas View Post
          First, I want to encourage everyone to take the concept of tooth aging being an exact science, meaning every deer's teeth wears exactly the same, and flush that down the toilet of your brain. Replace it with this concept: Tooth aging is really really good for determining young, middle aged, and old in nearly all deer, thus it can be used for management purposes.

          Let's address an item dear to the heart of most Green Screen users. "Did I kill that buck at a good old age with what could be its best set of antlers?"

          Scenario 1: A group lease has killed 5 bucks per year for 5 years. They complain they can't grow big bucks, seem to peak around 130-135 B&C. Tooth wear age shows all 25 bucks to be be 3-5 years old. Staying focused on the topic, what's the management decision to be made?

          Important for doe as well.
          Scenario 2: A high fence propery has been heavily killing doe for 6 years trying to reduce population size, but doe are becoming hard to find, and hunters can't reach their quota. Their biologist pressures them to try harder. The lease boss, who understands tooth wear, shows the biologist doe ages. The first year of doe harvest showed a wide distribution of doe ages from 1-8 yrs with a peak around 4 yrs. The last year of harvest showed doe age to peak at 2 yrs with only a few 5 yrs. Staying focused on the topic, what's the management decision to be made?
          Modern managers with trail camera histories kick the crap out of tooth wear when it comes to accurately aging deer. If that’s all you have, then great, but it’s no more accurate than aging on the hoof.

          If you need tooth wear to convince your biologist that you need to stop shooting does. You need a new biologist.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Encinal View Post
            Modern managers with trail camera histories kick the crap out of tooth wear when it comes to accurately aging deer. If that’s all you have, then great, but it’s no more accurate than aging on the hoof.
            Cool! You managed to answer the question in Scenario 1 while attempting to dodge it. Tooth wear revealed that the group of hunters need education in field aging bucks, which cameras can play a significant role. That's a real life scenario that is occurring all over Texas.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Encinal View Post
              If you need tooth wear to convince your biologist that you need to stop shooting does. You need a new biologist.
              An experienced biologist will know that doe become nocturnal when heavily hunted, as well as being aware of the impacts that good range conditions and/or years of heavy acorn crops have on movements. Those are compounding variables impossible to quantify in terms of hunters seeing doe. Accurate population estimates are also notoriously difficult to nail down. These variables leave open the question - Are doe scarce due to harvest or some other factor? In scenario 2, looking at the distribution of doe ages in the harvest sheds light on what's actually occurring. Since the age distribution has shifted to younger doe, then scarcity of doe can be attributed to harvest. Conversely, if the distribution remained constant, then harvest would not be responsible for scarcity of doe.

              Additionally, and expanding beyond the topic of tooth wear, a good biologist will also be keeping a close eye on browse use on top quality plants. This is a key component of population management.

              Deer are terribly uncooperative in giving up information. Managing a deer herd is like putting together a giant jigsaw puzzle. Each piece of data, including tooth wear ages, adds to completing a complex picture. The pieces also include population estimates over numerous years, browse use, age structure, fawn crops, nutrition, livestock stocking rates, antler measurements relative to buck age, field dressed weights, harvest numbers, etc. Each piece of the puzzle adds to the clarity of the image and helps guide management decisions.

              Any property with a biologist who claims tooth wear has no place in management is a property that needs a new biologist.

              Tooth wear aging is a valuable tool when used within its limitations.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Top Of Texas View Post
                An experienced biologist will know that doe become nocturnal when heavily hunted, as well as being aware of the impacts that good range conditions and/or years of heavy acorn crops have on movements. Those are compounding variables impossible to quantify in terms of hunters seeing doe. Accurate population estimates are also notoriously difficult to nail down. These variables leave open the question - Are doe scarce due to harvest or some other factor? In scenario 2, looking at the distribution of doe ages in the harvest sheds light on what's actually occurring. Since the age distribution has shifted to younger doe, then scarcity of doe can be attributed to harvest. Conversely, if the distribution remained constant, then harvest would not be responsible for scarcity of doe.

                Additionally, and expanding beyond the topic of tooth wear, a good biologist will also be keeping a close eye on browse use on top quality plants. This is a key component of population management.

                Deer are terribly uncooperative in giving up information. Managing a deer herd is like putting together a giant jigsaw puzzle. Each piece of data, including tooth wear ages, adds to completing a complex picture. The pieces also include population estimates over numerous years, browse use, age structure, fawn crops, nutrition, livestock stocking rates, antler measurements relative to buck age, field dressed weights, harvest numbers, etc. Each piece of the puzzle adds to the clarity of the image and helps guide management decisions.

                Any property with a biologist who claims tooth wear has no place in management is a property that needs a new biologist.

                Tooth wear aging is a valuable tool when used within its limitations.
                Well I guess I should just fire myself. SMH

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by Encinal View Post
                  Well I guess I should just fire myself. SMH
                  One day you'll figure it all out, get with the plan! I mean you don't have a track record to prove yourself or anything

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Tooth wear on 1 and 2 yr olds...accurate. After that a crap shoot. We have also found sending teeth to the lab variable and far from 100% accurate . Suppose every situation different but find the mantra" Know thy herd" to be best guiding light on harvest decisions.

                    But hey...we don't have a biologist
                    Last edited by elgato; 02-03-2019, 01:16 PM.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by elgato View Post
                      Tooth wear on 1 and 2 yr olds...accurate. After that a crap shoot. We have also found sending teeth to the lab variable and far from 100% accurate . Suppose every situation different but find the mantra" Know thy herd" to be best guiding light on harvest decisions.

                      But hey...we don't have a biologist
                      You don't have a track record either... move along...

                      Comment


                        #41
                        We have been noticing it has become more inaccurate on our ranch in mexico since we have been feeding protein for about 11 years. Some deer we know for sure were 8.5 but did not show the age. They were bucks that seemed to be at protein feeders daily. Glad to read this thought we were going crazy on deer we have seen for years. Went back on pictures on a couple to check and seen the teeth could not have shown there age.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          age this lower jaw

                          here is one to age
                          Attached Files

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by frios View Post
                            here is one to age
                            While he is likely old, i think he may also have a deformed lower jaw.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by frios View Post
                              here is one to age
                              Dude has a serious over bite.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by GarGuy View Post
                                While he is likely old, i think he may also have a deformed lower jaw.
                                Pretty sure he was being facetious

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X