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Old 10-15-2019, 05:10 PM   #51
RiverRat1
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Originally Posted by flywise View Post
Well, if this door had not been open for 4 hours 10 pm to 2 am there never would have been a call to the police. Surly you dont think its normal for a person in 2019 to leave their door open all night?

Yes the officer screwed up,( not identifying himself) Yes there was a gun mentioned in the very first report i heard the morning of this deal and it is extremely tragic. I absolutely believe mistakes were made and that consequences need to be paid but i also dont believe the police should be judged for a micro second decision before they have an opportunity to defend their actions
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:17 PM   #52
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Wow...had not read she had a gun. What a tragedy.

I cannot imagine the grief for the family or the officer.
I canít imagine the grief or the family and also the neighbor who called the cops. I know that I donít know the circumstances of the neighbors relationship but if it were me I would probably have gone over and checked on the house maybe self, again, Iím unaware of details.
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:22 PM   #53
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No, we wouldn't have. Your speculation in different scenarios is just that, speculation and different scenarios.

If he would have walked up to the front door, while using a little caution we would have had no story.
... and of course, you would known all of that prior to the call. And I thought it was hindsight.

Sure I speculated. You are doing the same. Every single time an officer approaches any call or any public contact... they had better be speculating on what might happen.

If officers donít continually play ďwhat ifĒ, there will be more dead cops.
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:47 PM   #54
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White officer, black victim. Front page nation wide. Sad all the way around. An innocent person is dead and a police officer is ruined and may as well be dead.

A few years back an older white gentleman was shot and killed standing in his garage with the door up. Officers responded to the wrong address and killed him. Barley made the news. No officers were charged. https://www.courthousenews.com/panel...illed-by-cops/

Like Willie said "this chit ain't right"
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:47 PM   #55
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Wasn't it a few years ago that FWPD killed a white home owner in his own garage that was carring a weapon after they approached his house by mistake?

They had received a dispatch and went to the wrong address/street and approached this person with pistols drawn as he worked in his garage he tried to pull his pistol and they shot him. Not much different than this other than the victim here is black. To be honest I do not know what happen to the two police officers that shot him?

It seems the media blows these tragedies out of proportion if it meets the current agenda for sure.

Prayers for this young ladies family!
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:48 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by muzzlebrake View Post
White officer, black victim. Front page nation wide. Sad all the way around. An innocent person is dead and a police officer is ruined and may as well be dead.

A few years back an older white gentleman was shot and killed standing in his garage with the door up. Officers responded to the wrong address and killed him. Barley made the news. No officers were charged. https://www.courthousenews.com/panel...illed-by-cops/

Like Willie said "this chit ain't right"
you beat me to it!
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Old 10-15-2019, 05:58 PM   #57
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Well, if this door had not been open for 4 hours 10 pm to 2 am there never would have been a call to the police. Surly you dont think its normal for a person in 2019 to leave their door open all night?

Yes the officer screwed up,( not identifying himself) Yes there was a gun mentioned in the very first report i heard the morning of this deal and it is extremely tragic. I absolutely believe mistakes were made and that consequences need to be paid but i also dont believe the police should be judged for a micro second decision before they have an opportunity to defend their actions

I got it, leave your door open for a cool breeze while playing video games=shoot in 2019.

And of course you believe popo shouldn't be judged, maybe people with that attitude is why police think shooting first and acquiring information later is justifiable
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Old 10-15-2019, 06:02 PM   #58
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Funny how when a LEO shoots someone liberals want to look at everything as though they were conservative. But when a POS criminal shoots someone they only use liberal logic...like the gun did it..he was raised bad so not his fault and on and on and on...

Sure no one including LEO should murder anyone. But the rush to find and prosecute all these "bad" cops is stupid.
So you are saying people should be held accountable for their actions, so when a person gets shot while attempting to protect their family (what the lady appears to have been doing) the shooter in the back yard should be held accountable, I agree.

IDK where the liberal comments come from, i think we should all be held accountable for our actions, regardless of our clothes. If that makes me a liberal well, it would be strange, but OK
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Old 10-15-2019, 06:05 PM   #59
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... and of course, you would known all of that prior to the call. And I thought it was hindsight.

Sure I speculated. You are doing the same. Every single time an officer approaches any call or any public contact... they had better be speculating on what might happen.

If officers donít continually play ďwhat ifĒ, there will be more dead cops.
It appears if they overplay the "what if" there are more dead people who were shot for no reason
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Old 10-15-2019, 06:21 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by muzzlebrake View Post
White officer, black victim. Front page nation wide. Sad all the way around. An innocent person is dead and a police officer is ruined and may as well be dead.

A few years back an older white gentleman was shot and killed standing in his garage with the door up. Officers responded to the wrong address and killed him. Barley made the news. No officers were charged. https://www.courthousenews.com/panel...illed-by-cops/

Like Willie said "this chit ain't right"

First I have heard of this, and it too is some serious BS.
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:04 PM   #61
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I don't see this being a murder charge at all. He was quick to pull the trigger but if the information that was given to him by dispatch was something other than a welfare check and she raised her hands pointing a gun at him then I can understand the quick trigger pull.
The way I see them acting in the video doesn't seem like the behaviour or approach one would use in a general welfare check. The door being open would make a difference to me if it wasn't a welfare check. Not knowing the information they had leaves a lot of questions.
Sad situation for all involved.

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Old 10-15-2019, 07:08 PM   #62
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First I have heard of this, and it too is some serious BS.
If I remember correctly when the officers approached him he tried to draw his weapon or already had it drawn and started to raise it up pointing it in the officers direction.

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Old 10-15-2019, 07:23 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by RJH1 View Post
I got it, leave your door open for a cool breeze while playing video games=shoot in 2019.

And of course you believe popo shouldn't be judged, maybe people with that attitude is why police think shooting first and acquiring information later is justifiable
Pure stupidity
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:32 PM   #64
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I feel most bad for the poor dude that called police cuz the neighbors doors open and that ain’t normal.....
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:39 PM   #65
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So from a police operational perspective, how much if at all will it change things if in fact the dispatcher sent them on something other than a welfare check? Let’s say it was related to them as a potential burglary? That seems to be how the officers responded tactically. (You LEOs tell me if I’m wrong) So in this hypothetical, if you get a call about a home burglary and you see someone pointing a gun at you through the window, what does the manual instruct you to do?
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:48 PM   #66
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So from a police operational perspective, how much if at all will it change things if in fact the dispatcher sent them on something other than a welfare check? Letís say it was related to them as a potential burglary? That seems to be how the officers responded tactically. (You LEOs tell me if Iím wrong) So in this hypothetical, if you get a call about a home burglary and you see someone pointing a gun at you through the window, what does the manual instruct you to do?
I read they were responding to a welfare check from a non-emergency (not 911) call. Is this not true?
I know just because dispatch sends us on an X call, doesn't mean it's not really a Y or a Z call.
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Old 10-15-2019, 07:53 PM   #67
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Jerp I have been on ( probably) well over 100 welfare checks. Where I work a welfare check would mean 1 fire department apparatus, 1 EMS apparatus and at least a few PD officers. We always start at the front door. No answer we start tapping on windows and listening. If we done hear anything we look for unlocked windows and eventually break into the home via a door. The fact this situation started with a door that had been open for hours in the middle of the night makes me think these officers were not sent to a simple welfare check.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:07 PM   #68
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I don't see this being a murder charge at all. He was quick to pull the trigger but if the information that was given to him by dispatch was something other than a welfare check and she raised her hands pointing a gun at him then I can understand the quick trigger pull.
The way I see them acting in the video doesn't seem like the behaviour or approach one would use in a general welfare check. The door being open would make a difference to me if it wasn't a welfare check. Not knowing the information they had leaves a lot of questions.
Sad situation for all involved.

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Iíve been thinking this all along. I think it hinges on the officers perception based on the dispatcher information. I wouldnít be surprised if he is cleared of all charges IF he followed SOP. Of course that is without including the racial aspect we are dealing with at this time, which shouldnít even be a factor. Her raising a gun changes everything IMO.

Seems like it may just be a tragic mess for all involved.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:21 PM   #69
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Pure stupidity

Whatever. I have found that when people resort to name-calling it's because their argument holds no merit. Have a good one
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:30 PM   #70
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I don’t know if LEO’s are being trained to be paranoid, or if some LEO’s become paranoid from their training. But I do know some people should NOT be LEO’s.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:33 PM   #71
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Whatever. I have found that when people resort to name-calling it's because their argument holds no merit. Have a good one
Who's name calling? I commented on your statement which was stupid as hell.
I didnt say anything about you
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:35 PM   #72
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Jerp I have been on ( probably) well over 100 welfare checks. Where I work a welfare check would mean 1 fire department apparatus, 1 EMS apparatus and at least a few PD officers. We always start at the front door. No answer we start tapping on windows and listening. If we done hear anything we look for unlocked windows and eventually break into the home via a door. The fact this situation started with a door that had been open for hours in the middle of the night makes me think these officers were not sent to a simple welfare check.


Iím curious- how many of your welfare checks were at 2:30 in the morning? Did that play a role here?


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Old 10-15-2019, 08:37 PM   #73
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Who's name calling? I commented on your statement which was stupid as hell.
I didnt say anything about you

Okay, fair enough but my statement was simply paraphrasing what you had said, in a slightly smart alec manner :-). Please read my next post, I hope it clarifies my opinion

Last edited by RJH1; 10-15-2019 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:41 PM   #74
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The main issue there is no justification for shooting someone when they are breaking no laws, and trying to come up with one is foolishness in my opinion. If the police shoot someone that is breaking no laws, they should be held accountable. If the facts in this case are what has been laid out so far, then trying to justify what happened can only be seen really as team playing, for lack of a better term. To be clear I don't think this has anything to do with race or anything like that, I think it has to do with police overstepping their bounds. And I honestly don't know how anyone can think it's okay, or justifiable, and if you believe it's reasonable I would hope you would rethink what reasonable should be
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:42 PM   #75
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Iím curious- how many of your welfare checks were at 2:30 in the morning? Did that play a role here?


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Many have been in the middle of the night. Ran one just last week, found an elderly man lying on the floor next to his bed barely alive. said he had fallen 10 hours before. I dont believe we have been on one similar to this one ( because of an open door) but many times the call comes from a relative in another state who cant get in touch with someone and sometimes their worry gets unbearable in the middle of the night.
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Old 10-15-2019, 08:43 PM   #76
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Iím curious- how many of your welfare checks were at 2:30 in the morning? Did that play a role here?


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Personally, rarely. Usually first thing in the morning (not being able to reach someone all evening & night) or the afternoon (not being able to reach someone all morning).
0230 does make it a bit of a different scenario but if you watch the LEO's video footage, the house was lit up very well (not what burglars do) & the front door was wide open & lit up (also not what burglars do).
My input is coming from the fire/EMS side of things but we do go on them quite often (like said above, I'm guessing I've been on more than 100).
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:40 AM   #77
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Lots of information that we don't know about this situation, but, two things come to mind here. A person's constitutional right to have a gun (and point the gun in self defense) in their own home, and a person's right to life, liberty and happiness. When anyone, including police, impede those rights, better make darn sure you have probable cause and it can be articulated so a reasonable person would understand.

At this point, this woman deserves the full protection of the law, and an affirmation of her constitutional rights.
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:15 AM   #78
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Fudds saying this is anything other than murder are delusional. It wasn’t one bad split second decision. Officer didn’t identify himself and murdered a woman looking out a window to see what’s going on. Sound like a bunch of commies trying to justify his actions because she picked up a gun when she heard noises in the yard. Maybe she had her door open because it felt great outside. It’s 2019 so that means we should live in fear and keep everything locked up?
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:08 AM   #79
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I agree that it was handled terribly - about as wrongly as you could imagine. But I'd have a hard time convicting the guy on a murder charge unless there's some kind of evidence that he had intent to kill the lady. It doesn't sound like he intended to kill her. It sounds (so far) like he was unbelievably negligent in how he approached the whole situation and reacted. Based on what is known so far, it sounds to me like a charge of negligent homicide or voluntary manslaughter would be more appropriate. I definitely think some type of serious criminal charge and punishment is more than appropriate.

I'm a huge supporter of law enforcement, and I am always willing to give them every benefit of the doubt. But this guy really screwed up in several ways.
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:22 AM   #80
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I agree that it was handled terribly - about as wrongly as you could imagine. But I'd have a hard time convicting the guy on a murder charge unless there's some kind of evidence that he had intent to kill the lady. It doesn't sound like he intended to kill her. It sounds (so far) like he was unbelievably negligent in how he approached the whole situation and reacted. Based on what is known so far, it sounds to me like a charge of negligent homicide or voluntary manslaughter would be more appropriate. I definitely think some type of serious criminal charge and punishment is more than appropriate.

I'm a huge supporter of law enforcement, and I am always willing to give them every benefit of the doubt. But this guy really screwed up in several ways.
Completely agree. Sounds like the city and DA jumped the gun and are flailing around desperately to appease with a murder charge. Politics, climate and such. Grand jury was skipped for some unjustified reason. Now it's looking like another cluster. These big city's are managed more like third world countries than representative democracy. Pitiful

Present to grand jury, charge appropriately, present, punish appropriately if found guilty. Pick up the peices and move on in good faith.
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:24 AM   #81
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Clearly his response to a welfare check was sketchy. And if anybody was sneaking around my back yard at night when im just playing xbox i would point a gun at the window as well. Especially when they don't IDENTIFY

I am only going off what i saw int he video.
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:26 AM   #82
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Fudds saying this is anything other than murder are delusional. It wasnít one bad split second decision. Officer didnít identify himself and murdered a woman looking out a window to see whatís going on. Sound like a bunch of commies trying to justify his actions because she picked up a gun when she heard noises in the yard. Maybe she had her door open because it felt great outside. Itís 2019 so that means we should live in fear and keep everything locked up?
I agree.
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:31 AM   #83
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If I remember correctly when the officers approached him he tried to draw his weapon or already had it drawn and started to raise it up pointing it in the officers direction.

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That was the police version. We will never know what really happened as there were no body cams. Police were at the wrong address and killed an old man and no one was ever charged with murder or even fired as far as I know. No one will ever know if the police identified themselves and the old man with several flashlights shining in his eyes shurley could not tell if they were officers. It was a tragic case and so is this current one. I am certain of one thing and that is none of these officers went to work those tragic nights with the thought in mind that I will shoot me somebody tonight.
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:42 AM   #84
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That was the police version. We will never know what really happened as there were no body cams. Police were at the wrong address and killed an old man and no one was ever charged with murder or even fired as far as I know. No one will ever know if the police identified themselves and the old man with several flashlights shining in his eyes shurley could not tell if they were officers. It was a tragic case and so is this current one. I am certain of one thing and that is none of these officers went to work those tragic nights with the thought in mind that I will shoot me somebody tonight.
The daughter of that case was on the radio the other day . She said he was in the garage and heard people out side the garage. As the door opened cops saw his gun about waist level and shot through the garage door. He never knew who was outside because he was dead before the door got all the way up
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:44 AM   #85
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Fudds saying this is anything other than murder are delusional. It wasnít one bad split second decision. Officer didnít identify himself and murdered a woman looking out a window to see whatís going on. Sound like a bunch of commies trying to justify his actions because she picked up a gun when she heard noises in the yard. Maybe she had her door open because it felt great outside. Itís 2019 so that means we should live in fear and keep everything locked up?
Recon I'm a communist now....not the first insult some dip**** had for me on here
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:06 PM   #86
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I don't see this being a murder charge at all. He was quick to pull the trigger but if the information that was given to him by dispatch was something other than a welfare check and she raised her hands pointing a gun at him then I can understand the quick trigger pull.
The way I see them acting in the video doesn't seem like the behaviour or approach one would use in a general welfare check. The door being open would make a difference to me if it wasn't a welfare check. Not knowing the information they had leaves a lot of questions.
Sad situation for all involved.

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The officers werenít going to a welfare check. It was a burglary in progress. The officer was still wrong no matter what he was responding to.

Was it dispatched as a burglary? No but I have heard it was welfare check or only an open door call. I have read versions that said the officers were not told it was a welfare check but....

At 2am, an open door call or information of such or even just seeing it, elevates it to a possible burglary. Just because a neighbor doesnít say the words or a dispatcher misinterprets or leaves out information doesnít change it from the officerís viewpoint.

The police have to make judgment calls by the information given and what they come across. The words used by a dispatcher doesnít necessarily dictate the response. If a person goes to an auto repair shop and says, some thingamajig is making some kind of clunking and wheezing sounds when I start the engine....

The mechanic isnít going to say, there is no thingamajig so I canít help you. No, the response is going to be, from my experience and professional opinion.... The officers are doing the same thing. I was told one thing but....

The officer made a horrible and deadly mistake. I can just about guarantee that the officers on scene thought it was a possible burglary and most officers in the same situation probably would have thought the same.

From what I have read about the situation...
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:20 PM   #87
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Completely agree. Sounds like the city and DA jumped the gun and are flailing around desperately to appease with a murder charge. Politics, climate and such. Grand jury was skipped for some unjustified reason. Now it's looking like another cluster. These big city's are managed more like third world countries than representative democracy. Pitiful

Present to grand jury, charge appropriately, present, punish appropriately if found guilty. Pick up the peices and move on in good faith.
I agree but for further information....

The grand jury is ďskippedĒ in a majority of cases on the initial arrest. The officer was arrested on an accusation warrant. No indictment on the initial arrest is probably true in about 75% of felonies. I would guess that about 95% of misdemeanor arrest are before the DA has even seen, much less accepted a case.

There is no legal requirement to wait for an indictment or a complaint in a misdemeanor just justify an arrest but there is an indictment requirement to procede to a trial. A grand jury ďcouldĒ still no bill this officer.
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:20 PM   #88
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Recon I'm a communist now....not the first insult some dip**** had for me on here
You aren't ANTIFA too are ya? Somebody said there was a bunch of them runnin' 'round tbh
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Old 10-16-2019, 12:23 PM   #89
flywise
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You aren't ANTIFA too are ya? Somebody said there was a bunch of them runnin' 'round tbh
Not antifa.....just pro china communist
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Old 10-16-2019, 01:19 PM   #90
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Not antifa.....just pro china communist
At least you and Lebron have that in common
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Old 10-16-2019, 01:25 PM   #91
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Recon I'm a communist now....not the first insult some freedom loving American had for me on here
Fify
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Old 10-16-2019, 01:39 PM   #92
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At least you and Lebron have that in common
Word!
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Old 10-16-2019, 02:14 PM   #93
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Fify
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Old 10-16-2019, 02:27 PM   #94
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Fify
Your a freedom loving patriot yet you completely ignore the most important principle of being an American and that is " until proven guilty " you and others on here act like the communist ...freakin dufus

Last edited by flywise; 10-16-2019 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 10-16-2019, 02:38 PM   #95
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Your a freedom loving patriot yet you completely ignore the most important principle of being an American and that is " until proven guilty " you and others on here act like the communist ...freakin dufus
Yeah Iím ignoring it just like the officer weíre discussing did. Except I stopped at Judgement and didnít skip immediately to execution.
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:04 PM   #96
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.
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:50 PM   #97
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.
Yep, your a patriot.....
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:59 PM   #98
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Your a freedom loving patriot yet you completely ignore the most important principle of being an American and that is " until proven guilty " you and others on here act like the communist ...freakin dufus
"Nobody looked at this video and said that thereís any doubt that this officer acted inappropriately," Fort Worth Police Chief, Ed Kraus, said. "There is absolutely no excuse for this incident," he said, "and the person responsible will be held accountable."

Looks like the Fort Worth Police Chief also ignored "the most important principle of being an American!" How do we know which team we're on now?! So confusing!
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Old 10-16-2019, 04:08 PM   #99
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"Nobody looked at this video and said that thereís any doubt that this officer acted inappropriately," Fort Worth Police Chief, Ed Kraus, said. "There is absolutely no excuse for this incident," he said, "and the person responsible will be held accountable."

Looks like the Fort Worth Police Chief also ignored "the most important principle of being an American!" How do we know which team we're on now?! So confusing!
Lord have mercy on the simpletons in out society
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Old 10-16-2019, 04:12 PM   #100
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Yep, your a patriot.....
Yes I believe there should be severe consequences for a government representative that kills a law abiding citizen in their residence.
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