Shot Noise And Speed

[PigOPs]

The short answer is - yes.

The long answer is - You have to achieve total/complete fletching clearance at pass, and you always need to shoot "cock fletch in" to do that, but even then, some shelves need to be modified a bit to get them good to go with vanes.

Believe it, or not - Hill style longbows are some of the easiest to shoot vanes from due to their narrow shelf.

Rick

In other words, it’s the width of my satori riser that is causing contact, not the crown?

When I first started seeing the idea of cock vane in it made no sense to me. But I now realize that the issue is with a vane slamming in to the shelf when I’d always imagined the issue being a vane slamming into the strike plate.


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[RickBarbee]

Kinda weird, the nosiest arrow should be far quieter then slamming two, 2x4s together. It must be the “ tone” or something rather then the “loudness. “ I feel a lot of their reaction is what people do immediately after the shot, movement of the bow, body , and yelling.

PigOps explained it perfectly.

The bow noise static, and is just once. it's intensity diminishes to nothing quickly.

But, the arrow noise is continuous, it's coming at them, and it's noise is amplifying as it does.

They really do know the difference between a static sound, and a sound that is something in coming.

I can give you an example of static sound from my this evenings hunt.
There was someone not to far from me to the south, that was shooting a fully automatic large caliber rifle. It was loud. Very loud. Much louder than even the loudest bow you've ever heard when standing right next to it. The deer never even looked up when it was fired off, and it was fired off a half dozen times or more.

Rick

[RickBarbee]

In other words, it’s the width of my satori riser that is causing contact, not the crown?

When I first started seeing the idea of cock vane in it made no sense to me. But I now realize that the issue is with a vane slamming in to the shelf when I’d always imagined the issue being a vane slamming into the strike plate.


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Yes, it's the width of the riser, but it's an easy fix if you're willing to do it.
All you have to do is place a hump on the shelf, that is slightly taller than your bottom hen fletch, and that isn't much since the fletch is at an angle.

But, you want that hump to only be wide enough for you to comfortably rest, and keep you arrow on - think longbow shelf, or a tad wider if you don't shoot canted, and need the extra piece of mind that you're not going to twist the arrow off the shelf.

I normally just make my hump all the way up to the bottom of the berger button hole (if there is one), because if the hole is there it makes it an easy center shot adjustment. If not, you just adjust center shot with the thickness of your strike plate material.

My blackwidow bows never required anything other than a 1/4" bump under the shelf material, and they were good to go.

Some riser manufacturers (like CD archery) have taken my hump idea/design, and built it right into their risers from the get go.

John's Customs Optimus riser has a machined attachment for it, but I like mine a bit taller, so I do my own.

Cock fletch in works for any fletching. You simply cannot get better clearance than it gives, unless you go to two fletch oriented at 1 oclock / 7 oclock.
Or, bare shaft.

Rick

[DRT]

My Martin Mamba came with a felt pad and a bump stick under it. I removed and went calf hair.
Different deer react differently. I hunted a friends place inbthe hill country opening weekend and though deer were so tense it was stupid. But it was so still you could hear a mouse f**t and any bow with any fletching or any broadhead was gonna get reaction.
The two I've shot at my place neither flinched until the arrow punched through. Little breeze, calm deer, close shots. 13 and 10 yards.
I've got nothing against vanes but I don't think they would benefit me enough at this point to use them.
As far as broadhead choice it would be great to always shoot a solid head but to get the weight right on the style head I like to shoot it would have to be really thin steel, like the shark line up from Simmons. And then they just bend too much.

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[PigOPs]

Shot Noise And Speed

I just tried trad vanes, cock vane in, on my satori. They are flying like darts and noticeably quieter. May have to do a little testing.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5ReVUJejUaM&feature=youtu.be

https://youtu.be/vBBPZMYTKOs

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[RickBarbee]

I just tried trad vanes, cock vane in, on my satori. They are flying like darts and noticeably quieter. May have to do a little testing.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5ReVUJejUaM&feature=youtu.be

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Heh Heh.

Go Get Em.

Rick

[RickBarbee]

Here's a slow motion video of a deer ducking from a shot loosed at a distance of 75 feet.

The speed of sound is: 1,125 ft/s

Considering -

(1) the distance of the shot.

(2) the speed of sound.

(3) the point at which the deer reacted.

It is obvious to me, that the deer paid no attention to the bow noise, but definitely reacted to the sound of the incoming arrow as it drew nearer.

Link to video:

https://vimeo.com/637523440

Rick

[Briar Friar]

My donkey doesnt mind me shooting my bow…when she is behind me. When off to the side or down (offset from) range…she goes away from my range quickly. Same with my cows, cats and dogs. Hearing a scud missle inbound to my locale would cause me to scurry away too.
Randomly applicable: My deceased WWII Big Red 1 infantry squad leader step grandfather with 3 purple heart in Europe once told me…to live through bombings…a soldier had to stop and listen to the incoming bomb. A soldier had to listen whether an incoming bomb was gonna fall short or long…there is a difference in the sound. Those who didnt listen and started running willy nilly were less likely to live…due to running to the bomb not away. I wonder if deer hear the arrow and take the time to choose to go up or down. Ive never seen a deer go up to jump my arrow but have heard stories.

[Briar Friar]

The previous anecdotal story and up/down jump quandry is the reason I shoot for a bit more center mass of lung. Im not quite the artist of martialing a heart shot.

Good push for hush Mr Rick.

[CarrolltonFF]

Thanks for the great info for a new bow hunter!

[jeffpg]

This reminds me of the recent Meateater podcast I listened to. It was titled "The Archer's Paradox" and was mainly focused on weight FOC. Dr. Ed Ashby did extensive testing of penetration by various arrow setups which included thousands of videos of kill shots. The numbers of statistics that he produced were astounding but the one thing that really stuck out to me was this:

Amongst the thousands of videos of kill shots on a huge variety of game animals at different distances, they could not find one single instance of a animal NOT visibly reacting to the shot in some physical manner.

That was huge to me and I believe it tells us a lot about what we need to pay attention to.

[PigOPs]

https://www.growingdeer.tv/?ep=462#/jumping-the-string-new-research-to-improve-bow-hunting-success

This video is kinda long but it shows clearly what I believe happens. The only thing I would change is that I believe the deer react more to the arrow sound than the bow but I could be wrong.