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Old 05-17-2019, 06:18 PM   #1
WhiskeyTango
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Default Is this legal?

Can I swap my upper and stock and be legal without any paper work?

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Old 05-17-2019, 06:28 PM   #2
frazee3200
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Yes
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:32 PM   #3
JLivi1224
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I say....constitutionally, all firearms area legal. Suck it, ATF!
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:37 PM   #4
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False. It is illegal to change a factory rifle to a pistol.
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BearStrike2010 View Post
False. It is illegal to change a factory rifle to a pistol.
Technically BearStrike is correct. Doesn’t seem to be a issue these days, but he is right.
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:41 PM   #6
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I sell guns for a living. I hope I know what I'm talking about lol
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:48 PM   #7
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My question is: why would you want to do that?
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Grown View Post
My question is: why would you want to do that?
Because i want to....

Edit: If it was legal why not? I could just swap whenever I felt.

Last edited by WhiskeyTango; 05-17-2019 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BearStrike2010 View Post
False. It is illegal to change a factory rifle to a pistol.
That's a very important clarification. If you built from a stripped lower, you don't have a problem. If you bought a complete rifle, you should avoid converting to a pistol. Save yourself the trouble and just buy a new stripped lower.
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BearStrike2010 View Post
I sell guns for a living. I hope I know what I'm talking about lol
So you must start with a lower registered as a pistol?
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerdown15 View Post
That's a very important clarification. If you built from a stripped lower, you don't have a problem. If you bought a complete rifle, you should avoid converting to a pistol. Save yourself the trouble and just buy a new stripped lower.
That's what I was wanting to know. Want to stay legal so I wanted to ask the question.
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerdown15 View Post
That's a very important clarification. If you built from a stripped lower, you don't have a problem. If you bought a complete rifle, you should avoid converting to a pistol. Save yourself the trouble and just buy a new stripped lower.
Can it be a complete lower or do you have to start with it stripped?
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Grown View Post
My question is: why would you want to do that?
exactly...the original configuration was a superior set up anyway for any and all applications.
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyTango View Post
So you must start with a lower registered as a pistol?

Yes. Stripped or simi-built, lower must be registered as a pistol.
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Old 05-17-2019, 07:00 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Grown View Post
Yes. Stripped or simi-built, lower must be registered as a pistol.
Thanks.
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Old 05-17-2019, 07:19 PM   #16
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You know what they say about AR pistols..
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BearStrike2010 View Post
False. It is illegal to change a factory rifle to a pistol.
Good info, but I read it in Dwight's voice from "the office" good chuckle!

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Old 05-17-2019, 08:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Grown View Post
Yes. Stripped or simi-built, lower must be registered as a pistol.
Partially correct. It needs to be listed on the 4473 form as pistol or other (which is pistol or rifle). Stripped lowers usually are listed as other unless explicitly roll marked as pistol. If the gun came to you or the original buyer listed as a rifle on the 4473, then that is illegal to covert it to a pistol. Rule of thumb is you can go from pistol to rifle, but cannot convert from rifle to pistol.

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Old 05-17-2019, 09:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Grown View Post
Yes. Stripped or simi-built, lower must be registered as a pistol.
Registered as a Pistol? Thought all stripped lowers are classified as 'other'.
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Partially correct. It needs to be listed on the 4473 form as pistol or other (which is pistol or rifle). Stripped lowers usually are listed as other unless explicitly roll marked as pistol. If the gun came to you or the original buyer listed as a rifle on the 4473, then that is illegal to covert it to a pistol. Rule of thumb is you can go from pistol to rifle, but cannot convert from rifle to pistol.

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Beat me to it.....
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:17 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Partially correct. It needs to be listed on the 4473 form as pistol or other (which is pistol or rifle). Stripped lowers usually are listed as other unless explicitly roll marked as pistol. If the gun came to you or the original buyer listed as a rifle on the 4473, then that is illegal to covert it to a pistol. Rule of thumb is you can go from pistol to rifle, but cannot convert from rifle to pistol.

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Old 05-17-2019, 10:30 PM   #22
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The fact that we have such absurd uncertainty on a matter that should be straightforward since it's covered by a 27-word Constitutional Amendment that includes the phrase "shall not be infringed" and comes second behind only the fundamental right of speech, religion, press, and assembly, should **** off every freedom-loving American to no end.
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:10 AM   #23
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Looks like a good excuse to just build another gun.
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Old 05-18-2019, 10:51 AM   #24
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Yes, I as know.
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Old 05-18-2019, 10:59 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BearStrike2010 View Post
False. It is illegal to change a factory rifle to a pistol.
You are correct

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Old 05-18-2019, 11:00 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Partially correct. It needs to be listed on the 4473 form as pistol or other (which is pistol or rifle). Stripped lowers usually are listed as other unless explicitly roll marked as pistol. If the gun came to you or the original buyer listed as a rifle on the 4473, then that is illegal to covert it to a pistol. Rule of thumb is you can go from pistol to rifle, but cannot convert from rifle to pistol.

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Yep spot on

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Old 05-18-2019, 11:05 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BearStrike2010 View Post
False. It is illegal to change a factory rifle to a pistol.
Don’t Ask. Don’t Tell
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Old 05-18-2019, 11:09 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texas grown View Post
my question is: Why would you want to do that?
this
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Old 05-18-2019, 11:39 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Grown View Post
My question is: why would you want to do that?


Maybe he has several and wants something different? Guns can be fun.


But in this case OP shouldn’t do that unless he wants to risk the possibility of gaining a new long term boyfriend.


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Old 05-18-2019, 11:49 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay C View Post
Maybe he has several and wants something different? Guns can be fun.


But in this case OP shouldn’t do that unless he wants to risk the possibility of gaining a new long term boyfriend.


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Agreed. As an owner of more than one, I understand the wanting of something different, or for a specialized purpose/task.
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Old 05-18-2019, 11:50 AM   #31
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ATF has as many loopholes as laws. These are partial truths above. Or part of the laws as we know them to be. Here is another one.

As long as the lower is marked as "multi" caliber. It can be built as a pistol.
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Old 05-18-2019, 11:50 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Partially correct. It needs to be listed on the 4473 form as pistol or other (which is pistol or rifle). Stripped lowers usually are listed as other unless explicitly roll marked as pistol. If the gun came to you or the original buyer listed as a rifle on the 4473, then that is illegal to covert it to a pistol. Rule of thumb is you can go from pistol to rifle, but cannot convert from rifle to pistol.

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I’m glad I read this. Cause I was about to change to rifle stock on my Radical 224 to the sba3 brace & run my pistol Grendel upper on it. I guess I’ll just have to built another lower. 😏😏😏😏
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Old 05-18-2019, 11:53 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbie View Post
ATF has as many loopholes as laws. These are partial truths above. Or part of the laws as we know them to be. Here is another one.

As long as the lower is marked as "multi" caliber. It can be built as a pistol.


I don’t believe that is correct.

If you are referring to a rifle with a “multi” marked lower.


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Last edited by Clay C; 05-18-2019 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 05-23-2019, 09:33 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay C View Post
I don’t believe that is correct.

If you are referring to a rifle with a “multi” marked lower.


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You are correct. What is rollmarked on the lower has nothing to do with it. Consider it Art. It has to do with what the firearm is listed as on the 4473.
1. If the gun comes as a rifle to the FFL it is to be listed as a rifle on the 4473.
2. If the gun comes as a pistol to the FFL, then it's listed as a pistol.
3. If a stripped lower comes to the FFL, it is listed as Other.



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Old 05-23-2019, 09:41 AM   #35
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Had folks tell me I was illegal converting my Encore to a pistol.......

Cant remember if I went ahead and did it or not..... ��
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Old 05-23-2019, 09:42 AM   #36
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so I know very little about guns, but why/how is that 2nd pic considered a pistol?
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Old 05-23-2019, 09:51 AM   #37
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Its nobody's business what you do... a friend told me to put this.
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Old 05-23-2019, 09:52 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeBlood View Post
so I know very little about guns, but why/how is that 2nd pic considered a pistol?
Under a 16" barrel. To make it legal, add a shockwave or other pistol brace.
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Old 05-23-2019, 09:58 AM   #39
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Once a rifle always a rifle.

Is it really worth the potential life ruining hassle to save the $100 it costs to just buy a new lower? You are already buying the expensive parts to make your pistol...
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Old 05-23-2019, 09:59 AM   #40
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How can you find out what it was listed as? Say I bought a stripped lower 9 yrs ago from a gun show?
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Old 05-23-2019, 10:03 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artos View Post
exactly...the original configuration was a superior set up anyway for any and all applications.
Except for when you hang a can off the end...then it is too long for quick handling.
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Old 05-23-2019, 10:23 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
You are correct. What is rollmarked on the lower has nothing to do with it. Consider it Art. It has to do with what the firearm is listed as on the 4473.
1. If the gun comes as a rifle to the FFL it is to be listed as a rifle on the 4473.
2. If the gun comes as a pistol to the FFL, then it's listed as a pistol.
3. If a stripped lower comes to the FFL, it is listed as Other.
Best and correct response I've seen. There is one loophole in the above rules. You may convert a rifle to a pistol as long as the barrel is 16" or longer and the overall length is 26" or greater. The ATF still considers it a (altered) rifle. Just remember the above lengths mentioned do not count easily removed items such as pistol braces and unpinned muzzle devices. This ruling is why you can put a pistol grip on a shotgun but the barrel must be 18" or longer on a shotgun.
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Old 05-23-2019, 10:28 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyb_23 View Post
How can you find out what it was listed as? Say I bought a stripped lower 9 yrs ago from a gun show?
If it were to come up ATF would do a search on the S/N

manufacture to distributor
distributor to shop
shop to 4473
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