Common Sense Gun Control

[Landrover]

Bump stock ban wasn’t evidence enough?

I thought that was evidence enough but it was swept away with, "not many folks have those", "those things are not needed", "rather give that up instead of...…". To me (not a HUGE gun guy) but it was a kick to the groin nonetheless. It was somewhat telling if nothing else. Mainly, the constitution & bill of rights will be negatively stressed...…..and that ain't good!!!
The yelling and screaming is in overdrive concerning guns, etc. Walmart is being bombarded by demands to stop selling ALL guns.....PERIOD! The richard's (****'s) Sporting Goods owner is all over TV talking about their decision to stop selling guns. You can bet there will be at least UNIVERSAL background checks and gun show tightening within 30 days or so. I wont be surprised if there is even more.

[awry]

Better not. I’ll be Off the trump train instantly.

Whose train would you jump to?

[Clay C]

I thought that was evidence enough but it was swept away with, "not many folks have those", "those things are not needed", "rather give that up instead of...…". To me (not a HUGE gun guy) but it was a kick to the groin nonetheless. It was somewhat telling if nothing else. Mainly, the constitution & bill of rights will be negatively stressed...…..and that ain't good!!!
The yelling and screaming is in overdrive concerning guns, etc. Walmart is being bombarded by demands to stop selling ALL guns.....PERIOD! The richard's (****'s) Sporting Goods owner is all over TV talking about their decision to stop selling guns. You can bet there will be at least UNIVERSAL background checks and gun show tightening within 30 days or so. I wont be surprised if there is even more.

Yup. People who thought the bump stock ban wasn't a big deal just failed to understand why. It was just as much, if not more, about HOW they banned than what they banned.

And yes, i'm using the word BANNED instead of regulate because the NFA was meant to effectively keep items out of the hands of common folk.

[Artos]

ATF approved the bump stock for use based on their own definitions...a piece of plastic was turned into a fully automatic weapon overnight I guess again based on their own definitions?? Not sure why they just didn't make it an NFA item simply to not appear so irrational. I think there is a lawsuit still going on over the whole definition deal but haven't kept up with it.

[Landrover]

Yup. People who thought the bump stock ban wasn't a big deal just failed to understand why. It was just as much, if not more, about HOW they banned than what they banned.

And yes, i'm using the word BANNED instead of regulate because the NFA was meant to effectively keep items out of the hands of common folk.

You said it much better than me. "We" got duped and folks dont want to admit it. If the last dim lightbulb in the whitehouse did that we would have had a revolution within hours of signing that document.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Clay C]

You said it much better than me. "We" got duped and folks dont want to admit it. If the last dim lightbulb in the whitehouse did that we would have had a revolution within hours of signing that document.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I doubt a revolution, but guarantee more people here would have magically given a crap about bump stocks.

[Clay C]

ATF approved the bump stock for use based on their own definitions...a piece of plastic was turned into a fully automatic weapon overnight I guess again based on their own definitions?? Not sure why they just didn't make it an NFA item simply to not appear so irrational. I think there is a lawsuit still going on over the whole definition deal but haven't kept up with it.

Maybe i've been wrong, but my understanding is that they are now an NFA item. Just like a "machine gun".

I believe what they did was basically say "okay, bump stocks now fall under the definition of machine gun". Machine gun is a legislative term that anyone with knowledge of how a bump stock operates can see doesn't encompass B S.

[Landrover]

I doubt a revolution, but guarantee more people here would have magically given a crap about bump stocks.

Now that's a FACT![emoji95]

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[tradtiger]

Remember that the 2nd Amendment does not safeguard our right to defend ourselves against deer; it guarantees our right to defend ourselves against tyranny.

Too bad I lost all my guns in that boating accident. I forget which lake....

Sent from my SM-J327V using Tapatalk

[ttechdallas]

You sure do post a lot of words that mean basically nothing and are so open ended it's just dumb. Not just this post BTW.

Absolutely hell freaking no to making it hard for "crazy" people to own a gun. Screw that because anyone with a brain can see that would screw nearly all gun owners. Seems like every single person now has a label. It would be just one step to say anyone with a label is unstable. So basically only those who lie could own a gun.

The issue is too complicated to be synthesized into bite sized talking points that you seem to prefer. And your definition of dumb seems to be whatever you disagree with or the lack the words yourself to counter.

If you are so all knowing that anything contrary to your thinking is dumb, maybe you can help me understand who warrants such fear that trying to keep or take guns out of the hands of legitimately crazy people is a threat to your / my 2nd amendment rights.

Who is this “they”, so powerful it just takes a couple of minor gun regs to create the slippery slope that propels them to overturn the 2nd amendment and go after our guns? Have you ever actually considered what’s required for that to happen?

Changing the 2nd Amendment requires a 2/3 vote in both the House and Senate or a constitutional convention called for by 2/3 of the states then voted on by ¾ of the states. Not going to happen, certainly not in our lifetimes.

There are an estimated 390M+ small arms (pistols and rifles) in the US and untold volumes of ammo. I’ve read that U.S. citizens have 3 times the number of guns that are held by the rest of the worlds armed forces. Even if the 2nd amendment was repealed, millions of gun owners are not turning them in voluntarily

It would take a massive coordinated effort between the military and LEO’s (many of whom are pro-gun) in teams of at least 3 to go house to house to collect them. Who is “they” who could pull this off without our knowing well in advance?

Then what happens when “they” knock on doors and start pushing their way in when told by gun owners “we don’t have any”. How much blood is shed across the country, throwing the country into such civil unrest that it would put the country’s national interest at risk.

"They" are not going to take our guns away unless and until they're ready to declare war on gun owners. If they do, we'll know well in advance it's coming and I’ll be fighting right beside you and everyone else. Until then, I won't be fighting reasonable regs that help keep deadly weapons out of the hands of legitimately dangerous or crazy people.

I do get your point though. It would be much less wordy to just call people dumb instead of exchanging opinions. Cheers.

[RascalArms]

I've long been curious about that question myself. A couple of years ago, I downloaded a public access database with information about every single mass shooting since 1980 or so (pre-Columbine). A close look at it repudiated almost every liberal talking point - frequency has not increased - especially school shootings.

However, what has changed is how much deadlier they have become - even with much faster police response times. Like it or not, there is a direct link between the higher number of those killed and wounded and that one dang gun and its accessories that the left like to talk about - the gun style, high capacity magazines, bump stocks.

I don't think there is anything that would eliminate them. The only common sense gun controls IMO would be a check point to purchase specific items before taking delivery of them and red flag laws. And hoping that the delay allowed law enforcement to take a close enough look to pick up other hints of what might be planned and intervene.

The issue is too complicated to be synthesized into bite sized talking points that you seem to prefer. And your definition of dumb seems to be whatever you disagree with or the lack the words yourself to counter.

If you are so all knowing that anything contrary to your thinking is dumb, maybe you can help me understand who warrants such fear that trying to keep or take guns out of the hands of legitimately crazy people is a threat to your / my 2nd amendment rights.

Who is this “they”, so powerful it just takes a couple of minor gun regs to create the slippery slope that propels them to overturn the 2nd amendment and go after our guns? Have you ever actually considered what’s required for that to happen?

Changing the 2nd Amendment requires a 2/3 vote in both the House and Senate or a constitutional convention called for by 2/3 of the states then voted on by ¾ of the states. Not going to happen, certainly not in our lifetimes.

There are an estimated 390M+ small arms (pistols and rifles) in the US and untold volumes of ammo. I’ve read that U.S. citizens have 3 times the number of guns that are held by the rest of the worlds armed forces. Even if the 2nd amendment was repealed, millions of gun owners are not turning them in voluntarily

It would take a massive coordinated effort between the military and LEO’s (many of whom are pro-gun) in teams of at least 3 to go house to house to collect them. Who is “they” who could pull this off without our knowing well in advance?

Then what happens when “they” knock on doors and start pushing their way in when told by gun owners “we don’t have any”. How much blood is shed across the country, throwing the country into such civil unrest that it would put the country’s national interest at risk.

"They" are not going to take our guns away unless and until they're ready to declare war on gun owners. If they do, we'll know well in advance it's coming and I’ll be fighting right beside you and everyone else. Until then, I won't be fighting reasonable regs that help keep deadly weapons out of the hands of legitimately dangerous or crazy people.

I do get your point though. It would be much less wordy to just call people dumb instead of exchanging opinions. Cheers.

You typed some fairly eloquent verbiage in all of that but I’ll address just a few issues I see.

First things first....as for the bump stocks? “They” actually succeeded in taking those remember?

Secondly...as for the Red Flag Laws? Come on now I’ll get to that in a minute but before I do let me say that I actually consider myself somewhat of a progressive type in that I’m not afraid to embrace change. I say that just to preface this. IF ME GIVING UP MY FIREARMS WOULD GUARANTEE THE SAFETY OF MY FRIENDS OR A FAMILY MEMBER THEN SIGN ME UP. I CAN LIVE WITHOUT THEM! But there’s absolutely ZERO chance you or any **** politician could EVER GUARANTEE me that criminals (with no respect whatsoever for obeying laws) would turn their’s in. That’s just fact....I mean, surely you can agree with that?? There are close to 400 million firearms in the US alone. You simply can’t close the barn door after all the cows are out and expect them all to come running back home when you summon them.

Now...back to the potential Red Flag Law that you say you WON’T BE FIGHTING?? That is absolutely both alarming and absurd IMO.

Digest for a second, if you will, just exactly what a Red Flag Law really is?
Remember the 6th Amendment where it says we have a right to face our accusers, right to a speedy trial...yada yada yada? Remember in the 4th Amendment where it talks about protecting us against illegal search and seizures...yada yada yada? Oh yeah, then there’s that pesky 2nd Amendment and all that Well Regulated and Right to bear arms (etc etc) mumbo jumbo?
The problem with Red Flag Laws is that someone, anyone, your nextdoor neighbor that you pizzed off last week by not inviting him to your bbq, the estranged cousin that is ticked at you bc your wife is hotter than his, the bipolar coworker that you passed up for a promotion....ANYBODY....can call the police, file a complaint and say you are exhibiting suicidal tendencies, experiencing violent outbursts and/or fear you are about to do harm to yourself or someone else. LEOs can then come in and confiscate every single firearm you own...period. And there’s not a **** thing you can do about it either. Oh don’t worry...you’ll get your day in court, I mean eventually...provided you can afford a good lawyer. You can then stand before a judge and possibly even a jury to get the chance to “prove your innocence” for a crime that didn’t even happen.

That’s not due process my friend...plain and simple. I could go on but it’s late and I’m tired.

[-HIC-]

I cannot believe Dan Crenshaw, a retired Navy Seal, is pushing red flag as a 'good' option. I am completely floored at how quick DC has corrupted this guy. The single biggest group of folks that could be quickly targeted for 'Red Flag' is our Veterans. Any of them have post deployment depression or PTSD? Now on to anyone that has ever been prescribed some type of anti-depressant, males over 18 next. Anyone that thinks a government that cannot run the VA, cannot square a budget, secure our borders, etc. etc. etc. should be arbitraily taking cases to a rubber stamp judge to pull your rights away is not thinking clearly. Sure, all of these feel good laws seem just fine to our rulers because, as we have seen time and time again, laws only apply to us peons.

[150class]

I cannot believe Dan Crenshaw, a retired Navy Seal, is pushing red flag as a 'good' option. I am completely floored at how quick DC has corrupted this guy. The single biggest group of folks that could be quickly targeted for 'Red Flag' is our Veterans. Any of them have post deployment depression or PTSD? Now on to anyone that has ever been prescribed some type of anti-depressant, males over 18 next. Anyone that thinks a government that cannot run the VA, cannot square a budget, secure our borders, etc. etc. etc. should be arbitraily taking cases to a rubber stamp judge to pull your rights away is not thinking clearly. Sure, all of these feel good laws seem just fine to our rulers because, as we have seen time and time again, laws only apply to us peons.

I saw that too.
Some major changes are about to come down the line....

[Artos]

Maybe i've been wrong, but my understanding is that they are now an NFA item. Just like a "machine gun".

I believe what they did was basically say "okay, bump stocks now fall under the definition of machine gun". Machine gun is a legislative term that anyone with knowledge of how a bump stock operates can see doesn't encompass B S.

Last I heard was you had to turn them in or be destroyed?? Haven't seen anything to the counter on the gun forums anyway??

I suspect binary triggers will be next at some point.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm betting all three of these latest shootings had enough warning in regards to 'see something, say something' & I do believe if level heads could prevail we could enact a process to improve helping these individuals before they act. I would support it if it followed the constitution with adequate due process and not interfere with the law abiding via false accusation as you have seen it happen now.

Sadly, I do not have much faith of anything substantive coming out of this as our law makers are too corrupt & unwilling to compromise on even the smallest of issues the nation needs addressing...tackling this guy doesn't stand a chance. To see politicians using these acts as opportunities to raise poll numbers & $$$$$ for their campaign within minutes is a whole other class of loser & totally classless.

[SB09]

If the government was out to take our guns away, they would already be doing it. There are ways to write protections into law that criminalize their abuse.

I get that some people believe any "give" on gun control is just a step toward "their" (whoever they is) goal of taking all our guns away. I don't.

I believe the greatest risk is fighting everything / doing nothing as these shootings continue to happen. As the demographics continue to change NOT in our favor, I believe more and more people will see the only way to change anything will be to overturn the 2nd amendment.

Right now, even most Democrats don't support that. Most just want to make it harder for bad, crazy people to get guns and hopefully make these mass shootings less likely to occur.

No matter what we "give" the mass shootings aren't stopping. I've yet to see anyone come up with anything that's common sense and has even a small chance of working. There's nothing that's going to make these less likely, while maintaining the freedom our Forefathers thought was important enough to literally put it second in the line of Amendments our Constitution currently has.