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    #91
    Originally posted by cpatterson View Post
    I was under the impression that current research shows that in fact, nutrition is the number one factor in antler growth and development far and above genetics. Making everything said here incorrect.


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    From actual experience, all I can tell you is that information is wrong. I have seen 4 and 5 year old native deer that have protein any time they want it, dwarfed by 2 year old deer with good genetics. If you don't have good genetics you will never have high end deer. If all it took was feed there would be no scientific breeders, everyone would just dump out a bunch of protein and have 200 inch deer, but that doesn't happen.

    No matter how much you feed a midget, he won't turn into Shaq

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      #92
      Originally posted by cpatterson View Post
      I was under the impression that current research shows that in fact, nutrition is the number one factor in antler growth and development far and above genetics. Making everything said here incorrect.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      This, Look up the MSU deer study where they captured deer from 3 different regions. They picked a region with great genetics one with average and one with poor. Within 10 years of eating the same nutrient rich foods the lower two deer regions caught up to the best one where the genes were believed to be better.

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        #93
        I don’t know what my opinion is worth but this deer was a straight up spike as a yearling, as a 2 yr old is made quite the jump. I know for a fact his age due to being in our breeding facility.

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          #94
          Originally posted by Edward54 View Post
          I don’t know what my opinion is worth but this deer was a straight up spike as a yearling, as a 2 yr old is made quite the jump. I know for a fact his age due to being in our breeding facility.




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            #95
            Originally posted by RJH1 View Post
            From actual experience, all I can tell you is that information is wrong. I have seen 4 and 5 year old native deer that have protein any time they want it, dwarfed by 2 year old deer with good genetics. If you don't have good genetics you will never have high end deer. If all it took was feed there would be no scientific breeders, everyone would just dump out a bunch of protein and have 200 inch deer, but that doesn't happen.

            No matter how much you feed a midget, he won't turn into Shaq
            Nutrition maximizes genetic potential. It absolutely affects antler growth.

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              #96
              Originally posted by snappertapper View Post
              Nutrition maximizes genetic potential. It absolutely affects antler growth.
              I am not saying it makes no difference, but it does not turn 150 max genetics deer into 200 inch deer. I have seen people try. We feed protein all the time, but if you don't have solid genetics, and are feeding low fence deer, assuming decent natural forage, feeding protein is basically going to have as much effect on the deer herd as shooting spikes

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                #97
                Originally posted by Edward54 View Post



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                Nice deer

                So how does he compare at two, compared to the branched antlered one year old deer he was born with. Like say one that was a six or eight point at one year old?

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                  #98
                  https://youtu.be/yzBvvisAoHg good study on genetics vs nutrition

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                    #99
                    Originally posted by RJH1 View Post
                    Nice deer

                    So how does he compare at two, compared to the branched antlered one year old deer he was born with. Like say one that was a six or eight point at one year old?

                    Out of 9 deer in his age class he was in the top 3 of the bucks we released all of them this year I’m excited to watch them grow out in the pasture the next 3-4 years.


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                      Originally posted by Edward54 View Post
                      Out of 9 deer in his age class he was in the top 3 of the bucks we released all of them this year I’m excited to watch them grow out in the pasture the next 3-4 years.


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                      Nice

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                        Originally posted by RJH1 View Post
                        Here's what all this stuff really boils down to, if you're not killing spikes, you're not even beginning to try to alter genetics. If you're not trying to alter genetics, then you shouldn't be worried with things like protein feed because that makes a minuscule amount of difference on antlers compared to genetics. In fact genetics is the only real determining Factor in antler growth. So if you're not trying to alter genetics the next best thing you can do is allow for age, everything I've ever seen and every deer breeder I've ever talked to says that deer have the best antlers between 4 and 1/2 and 5 1/2. So if you're looking to kill the best deer that your place can make naturally, just shoot the bucks at four and a half or five and a half, because letting them go any longer their antler mass will reduce and since we are throwing genetics out the window, hoping they'll breed is kind of nonsensical as well.

                        The other option is go with if it's brown it's down which has the exact same effect on your deer herd as not shooting spikes, because overall you're not affecting the genetics of the deer anymore than if you wait to kill the deer at four and a half or five and a half.

                        In reality none of it much matters unless you're control huge swaths of land, or are within a hi fence. Because unless you're controlling genetics you're really not doing anything to really affect the deer herd.

                        So in total what I would do in a low fence situation is shoot spikes, because they'll probably never be as good as their non Spike counterpart, and I would wait on everything else I saw to get to be four and a half or five and a half if I was interested in shooting the biggest deer my place could make naturally. Or if I didn't have a large amount of land and depending on what the neighbors were doing, I would go with its brown it's down because that's probably all you're going to see. Have a good one
                        Wow, I’d be interested in talking to all the breeders you’ve chatted with. Sounds like they haven’t been in for 8 years+

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                          Originally posted by RJH1 View Post
                          From actual experience, all I can tell you is that information is wrong. I have seen 4 and 5 year old native deer that have protein any time they want it, dwarfed by 2 year old deer with good genetics. If you don't have good genetics you will never have high end deer. If all it took was feed there would be no scientific breeders, everyone would just dump out a bunch of protein and have 200 inch deer, but that doesn't happen.

                          No matter how much you feed a midget, he won't turn into Shaq
                          You need to read el gatos “year in the life of a farm” thread

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                            How about this scenario......2 spikes walk out, one has 2" spikes and the other has 6" spikes. Which one do 90% of the hunters shoot if told to shoot 1 spike?

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                              I had a deer that was a spike as a yearling that still had inferior antlers the 2nd year. 3rd year he was the biggest deer we ever got pictures of. Not a high fence monster but a great low fence deer. He didn’t get passed, on purposefully. He was just lucky. We never saw him again after 3yrs.

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                                One thing I can guarantee you is every spike I have ever killed tasted awesome!

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