removing gun registration ...

[tdwinklr]

How do I remove my gun registration from a handgun I sold recently? Bought it new but forgot about it until now.
Can the manufacturer I purchased from do that for me since it was registered under them and through the dealer?

[gb22250]

There is no registration to be removed. There’s always the record of the sale that could be pulled by certain agencies if needed that would lead back to you as the original transferee.

Some people like to document their personal firearm sales with a bill of sale signed and dated by both parties to help attempt to prove the gun was sold in the event they are ever contacted about the firearm.

[tdwinklr]

Originally Posted by gb22250

There is no registration to be removed. There’s always the record of the sale that could be pulled by certain agencies if needed that would lead back to you as the original transferee.

Some people like to document their personal firearm sales with a bill of sale signed and dated by both parties to help attempt to prove the gun was sold in the event they are ever contacted about the firearm.

when you buy a new one, you fill out an ATF form at the dealer and if you want the gun warranted, you fill out a registration form with the manufacturer.
Is what I'm talking about, in case the next owner does something stupid with it ...

[HeyMikey]

It looks like gb22250 just offered an easy way for you to CYA.

[captainsling]

Originally Posted by tdwinklr

when you buy a new one, you fill out an ATF form at the dealer and if you want the gun warranted, you fill out a registration form with the manufacturer.
Is what I'm talking about, in case the next owner does something stupid with it ...

There is nothing you can do. You filled out the form stating you were the buyer. There is nothing registered. It is simply paperwork as stated above, and the ATF can track the purchase if they need to for any reason.

[txpitdog]

In Texas, it is not illegal to sell a firearm to an individual without a record of the sale. If you are concerned about future liability, jot down notes about who you sold it to, save emails or texts, or PMs.


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[westtexducks]

You don't register firearms in Texas, they record the sale which there is an argument to be made that is quasi registration but I digress.

People stress out about this crap entirely to much. Pretty simple. You sell gun to Joe Blow. Joe Blow sells it to Dale Dumbarse or more likely Dale Dumbarse steals it from Joe Blow, then robs a convenience store with it. If it ever gets tracked back to you which is highly unlikely it would be to try and verify your ownership to return it. Pretty simple conversation to be had. ATF gestapo- We are here about xyz firearm shows you purchased it in 1975, do you know the where abouts of it?
Gun Owner, I sold that pistol and it is no longer in my possession.
End Conversation.
You are not legally obligated to verify that the buyer is able to legally purchase that firearm and you are not legally required to document or keep records of it either. Now if ATF gestapo shows up and you answer yeah I sold it to a shady SOB I thought he looked suspicious then yeah gonna be a bad day. But if you sold it in good faith all is well.

[Walker]

5" angle grinder

[Shut Em Down]

I usually just type up a bill of sale. If I am buying I now have proof for my insurance. If I am selling I have some type of proof if someone came knocking on my door.

For the rest of them I lost in a boating accident.

[Hoggslayer]

Always ask the buyer to fill out form: ID-10-T

[sierracharlie338]

Originally Posted by tdwinklr

when you buy a new one, you fill out an ATF form at the dealer and if you want the gun warranted, you fill out a registration form with the manufacturer.
Is what I'm talking about, in case the next owner does something stupid with it ...

If you filled out the form that comes with the firearm that "registers the gun with the manufacturer" then you would need to contact the manufacturer as that is an in house "registration". There would be no other place to "change the registration"

[kck]

Bill of sale, printed name and signed by both parties with either SS# or DL#.

[westtexducks]

Originally Posted by kck

Bill of sale, printed name and signed by both parties with either SS# or DL#.

Want my bank account number while your at it?

Jeez some of yall are crazy.

[BrianL]

If you are worried about it, sell thru an FFL, otherwise if anyone asked you sold it to some dude a long time ago.

[BrianL]

Originally Posted by kck

Bill of sale, printed name and signed by both parties with either SS# or DL#.

Really really bad idea to give any individual your SS or DL #

[tdwinklr]

Originally Posted by txpitdog

In Texas, it is not illegal to sell a firearm to an individual without a record of the sale. If you are concerned about future liability, jot down notes about who you sold it to, save emails or texts, or PMs.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I have most of that info, just wasn't sure if that was enough. You never know now days.

[Tommyh]

Originally Posted by tdwinklr

I have most of that info, just wasn't sure if that was enough. You never know now days.

Are you worried about atf tracing, or gun mfr warranty repairs transferring to the next owner? Two totally separate items.

[TacticalCowboy]

Originally Posted by BrianL

Really really bad idea to give any individual your SS or DL #

Yup.

If I engage in some gun purchase or trade and the other party wants it, they get some digits that look like a SSN or DL number.

[tdwinklr]

Originally Posted by Tommyh

Are you worried about atf tracing, or gun mfr warranty repairs transferring to the next owner? Two totally separate items.

ATF tracing back to me for something I would not have done. They may be separate items but same info is involved.
You do the same thing with a car, fill out a form releasing your liability, if you don't go with the buyer to the tax office and transfer your title/tags there. I've had that come back to bite me before where the buyer didn't do their part.

[Artos]

ATF just traces the paper trail available...I helped them with a trace a couple weeks ago.

Gun turns up stolen or crime scene...what are their options.

Take s/n to mfg.
mfg sends to distribution
distribution sends to ffl
atf calls ffl & ffl gives 4473 info of john Doe
John Doe tells atf he sold gun to jane doe
Jane doe tells atf that she traded at a gun show w/ stranger.
atf finally figures their case based on gun show vid or it goes cold.
The end.

John Doe is not responsible or get in trouble
Jane Doe is not responsible or get in trouble

Don't worry about it but if you can help atf w/ the 411 you may very well help someone retrieve a stolen gun.

[Hoggslayer]

Originally Posted by kck

Bill of sale, printed name and signed by both parties with either SS# or DL#.

That's the ID-10-T form I was speaking of.

I don't know anyone in there right mine that would willingly give a stranger that kind of info.

Lots of guns for sale out there. if someone wants that kind of info from me then I'll pass.

[tgridley]

When you fill out the form to buy the gun, it stays with the store, shop, etc. for their records. They do not sent it to ATF or anyone else. Yes as stated above, it can be traced back to you to confirm ownership and to see if you still have it. The ATF form is not for registration, it's to make sure convicted felons don't purchase a firearm.

Some of you folks worry to much about nothing.

[hchntr]

Originally Posted by tgridley

When you fill out the form to buy the gun, it stays with the store, shop, etc. for their records. They do not sent it to ATF or anyone else. Yes as stated above, it can be traced back to you to confirm ownership and to see if you still have it. The ATF form is not for registration, it's to make sure convicted felons don't purchase a firearm.

Some of you folks worry to much about nothing.

X2


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[sir shovelhands]

Originally Posted by BrianL

Really really bad idea to give any individual your SS or DL #

Yep and unnecessary. Legal requirements are pretty lax in Texas for transfer requirements. The only no-no's are:

-selling to someone under 18
-selling to someone intoxicated
-selling to someone released from a felony sentence the in past 5 years
-selling to someone who has a restraining order against them
-selling to someone planning to use it in a crime

Also, the actual legal wording says "knowingly/intentionally" before each of those, so if you don't know otherwise, I don't see how you can be held at fault. And oddly the last one only applies to handguns...so I guess if your buddy wants to off someone it's legal to hook them up with a rifle to do it?

All I need for a sale is a name (and the phone number they used), so I can point the police in the right direction if they murder someone.

[Mike D]

Originally Posted by Artos

ATF just traces the paper trail available...I helped them with a trace a couple weeks ago.

Gun turns up stolen or crime scene...what are their options.

Take s/n to mfg.
mfg sends to distribution
distribution sends to ffl
atf calls ffl & ffl gives 4473 info of john Doe
John Doe tells atf he sold gun to jane doe
Jane doe tells atf that she traded at a gun show w/ stranger.
atf finally figures their case based on gun show vid or it goes cold.
The end.

John Doe is not responsible or get in trouble
Jane Doe is not responsible or get in trouble

Don't worry about it but if you can help atf w/ the 411 you may very well help someone retrieve a stolen gun.

I can say from experience this is EXACTLY how it goes down. They can trace to the original purchaser if done through FFL. You are under ZERO obligation in the State of Texas to keep a disposition record of any firearm you sell. You are obligated to reasonably believe that the person was not prohibited from owning a firearm. I for one want it to stay exactly this way and I will never buy private party that requires a bill of sale or any other nonsense. And you **** sure ain’t getting a copy of my DL/SS/LTC# or a picture of any of these.

Originally Posted by tdwinklr

ATF tracing back to me for something I would not have done. They may be separate items but same info is involved.

You do the same thing with a car, fill out a form releasing your liability, if you don't go with the buyer to the tax office and transfer your title/tags there. I've had that come back to bite me before where the buyer didn't do their part.

See above. Don’t overthink it.

Originally Posted by kck

Bill of sale, printed name and signed by both parties with either SS# or DL#.

So let’s assume you do a BOS and it turns out the person was prohibited from owning a firearm; now what? You have just documented selling a firearm to a prohibited person.

Originally Posted by BrianL

If you are worried about it, sell thru an FFL, otherwise if anyone asked you sold it to some dude a long time ago.

Yep.

Originally Posted by westtexducks

You don't register firearms in Texas, they record the sale which there is an argument to be made that is quasi registration but I digress.

People stress out about this crap entirely to much. Pretty simple. You sell gun to Joe Blow. Joe Blow sells it to Dale Dumbarse or more likely Dale Dumbarse steals it from Joe Blow, then robs a convenience store with it. If it ever gets tracked back to you which is highly unlikely it would be to try and verify your ownership to return it. Pretty simple conversation to be had. ATF gestapo- We are here about xyz firearm shows you purchased it in 1975, do you know the where abouts of it?
Gun Owner, I sold that pistol and it is no longer in my possession.
End Conversation.
You are not legally obligated to verify that the buyer is able to legally purchase that firearm and you are not legally required to document or keep records of it either. Now if ATF gestapo shows up and you answer yeah I sold it to a shady SOB I thought he looked suspicious then yeah gonna be a bad day. But if you sold it in good faith all is well.

Perfect.

Originally Posted by BrianL

Really really bad idea to give any individual your SS or DL #

Indeed.

Originally Posted by westtexducks

Want my bank account number while your at it?



Jeez some of yall are crazy.

Yep.

Originally Posted by Hoggslayer

That's the ID-10-T form I was speaking of.



I don't know anyone in there right mine that would willingly give a stranger that kind of info.



Lots of guns for sale out there. if someone wants that kind of info from me then I'll pass.

Not getting it from me that’s for sure.

Originally Posted by tgridley

When you fill out the form to buy the gun, it stays with the store, shop, etc. for their records. They do not sent it to ATF or anyone else. Yes as stated above, it can be traced back to you to confirm ownership and to see if you still have it. The ATF form is not for registration, it's to make sure convicted felons don't purchase a firearm.

Some of you folks worry to much about nothing.

Definitely. Enjoy the freedoms we still have. Don’t willingly give them away.


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[BrianL]

Originally Posted by Mike D

So let’s assume you do a BOS and it turns out the person was prohibited from owning a firearm; now what? You have just documented selling a firearm to a prohibited person.

My thoughts as well. I prefer not to have that info in my possession.

[SabineHunter]

Originally Posted by kck

Bill of sale, printed name and signed by both parties with either SS# or DL#.

Totally unnecessary and virtually useless.

[duckmanep]

Originally Posted by tgridley

When you fill out the form to buy the gun, it stays with the store, shop, etc. for their records. They do not sent it to ATF or anyone else. Yes as stated above, it can be traced back to you to confirm ownership and to see if you still have it. The ATF form is not for registration, it's to make sure convicted felons don't purchase a firearm.

Some of you folks worry to much about nothing.

So they never send any forms to the ATF?

[Artos]

Originally Posted by duckmanep

So they never send any forms to the ATF?

Only when a ffl closes their business then the ffl surrenders the 4473's & A&D book along with the ffl.

[Mike D]

Originally Posted by duckmanep

So they never send any forms to the ATF?

It’s my understanding that all 4473 stays with the FFL until time that the FFL is no longer in business OR they are destroyed after 20 years if the FFL is still in business.

If they need a form they usually show up in person to get a copy.


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[duckmanep]

Originally Posted by Artos

Only when a ffl closes their business then the ffl surrenders the 4473's & A&D book along with the ffl.

Originally Posted by Mike D

It’s my understanding that all 4473 stays with the FFL until time that the FFL is no longer in business OR they are destroyed after 20 years if the FFL is still in business.

If they need a form they usually show up in person to get a copy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I knew the answer before I asked the question.... I was just seeing if the guy who seemed to know with certainty that forms never get sent to the ATF did.

Another frequent occurrence is FFL's switching types. Many start as 01 and then realize they want to be 07. They give up the 01 and have to send all their records from the 01 in.

[kck]

****, do I have a sign on my thread that says “please respond like an *** hole”? I’m not saying that’s what to do, I’m saying that it’s an option if you’re that worried about who you’re selling a gun to. I’m an FFL so come gimme money and I’ll call it in. If not, then don’t do **** and just sell the gun...

[TacticalCowboy]

Originally Posted by kck

I’m an FFL so come gimme money and I’ll call it in. If not, then don’t do **** and just sell the gun...

That was a lot better response than telling folks to pass out SSNs and DL#s like candy.

[Capp35]

I just do a bill of sale and take a pic of their drivers license.
Not much more you can do.

[Capp35]

Originally Posted by BrianL

Really really bad idea to give any individual your SS or DL #

Not any different than when you get in a fender bender.

[kck]

Originally Posted by TacticalCowboy

That was a lot better response than telling folks to pass out SSNs and DL#s like candy.

I wasn't telling anyone to pass out anything like candy. The only reason I said that is if someone wants to ask for a DL# from a buyer (yeah SS# isn't real smart but I've seen people do it) they can ask for it. If you don't want to give it and not buy the gun then don't. Would I do it? No. Do people ask for it to cover their *** on occasion and do people give it? Yep. Used to be a good place to discuss **** around here back around 2005...

[kck]

[QUOTE=Mike D;15363308]I can say from experience this is EXACTLY how it goes down. They can trace to the original purchaser if done through FFL. You are under ZERO obligation in the State of Texas to keep a disposition record of any firearm you sell. You are obligated to reasonably believe that the person was not prohibited from owning a firearm. I for one want it to stay exactly this way and I will never buy private party that requires a bill of sale or any other nonsense. And you **** sure ain’t getting a copy of my DL/SS/LTC# or a picture of any of these.





So let’s assume you do a BOS and it turns out the person was prohibited from owning a firearm; now what? You have just documented selling a firearm to a prohibited person.


You stated it in the above. If you don't have a reason to think that person should not own that but then you're fine. Documented or not, if you think that person is legit, sell em the gun. However, if something were to happen and your name is on record (if you purchased through a FFL) it's not a bad idea.

[devingreer]

Following

[Bullseye07]

Originally Posted by kck

I wasn't telling anyone to pass out anything like candy. The only reason I said that is if someone wants to ask for a DL# from a buyer (yeah SS# isn't real smart but I've seen people do it) they can ask for it. If you don't want to give it and not buy the gun then don't. Would I do it? No. Do people ask for it to cover their *** on occasion and do people give it? Yep. Used to be a good place to discuss **** around here back around 2005...

So you wouldn’t follow your own advice that you just gave?


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[Mike D]

[quote=kck;15364175]

Originally Posted by Mike D

I can say from experience this is EXACTLY how it goes down. They can trace to the original purchaser if done through FFL. You are under ZERO obligation in the State of Texas to keep a disposition record of any firearm you sell. You are obligated to reasonably believe that the person was not prohibited from owning a firearm. I for one want it to stay exactly this way and I will never buy private party that requires a bill of sale or any other nonsense. And you **** sure ain’t getting a copy of my DL/SS/LTC# or a picture of any of these.











So let’s assume you do a BOS and it turns out the person was prohibited from owning a firearm; now what? You have just documented selling a firearm to a prohibited person.





You stated it in the above. If you don't have a reason to think that person should not own that but then you're fine. Documented or not, if you think that person is legit, sell em the gun. However, if something were to happen and your name is on record (if you purchased through a FFL) it's not a bad idea.

I still don’t see the logic behind a Bill of Sale. It won’t protect you from anything because if you didn’t commit a crime nothing will happen to you.

In my scenario I talked about, I sold a stripped AR lower. He built it into a rifle and it was stolen out of his house. It was recovered and the ATF called me, asked a few questions, I told them I sold it to a guy at a gun show (I did ask to SEE his Texas CCL at the time) and that I did not take any additional info. That was the end of it. No further contact from them.


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[kck]

Originally Posted by Bullseye07

So you wouldn’t follow your own advice that you just gave?


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No, because the question was what can be done to keep a record of a transaction and if it’s necessary or not. Not whether I would do it.

[kck]

[quote=Mike D;15364292]

Originally Posted by kck

I still don’t see the logic behind a Bill of Sale. It won’t protect you from anything because if you didn’t commit a crime nothing will happen to you.

In my scenario I talked about, I sold a stripped AR lower. He built it into a rifle and it was stolen out of his house. It was recovered and the ATF called me, asked a few questions, I told them I sold it to a guy at a gun show (I did ask to SEE his Texas CCL at the time) and that I did not take any additional info. That was the end of it. No further contact from them.


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I’ll call the ATF tomorrow and ask em what they would suggest. However, the only reason I gave the option I did in the first place was to possibly be able to prove/streamline any questioning and/or issues that could possibly arise if your gun was used in a murder, mass shooting or some off the charts **** like that. It’s not something I suggest or advocate, just an option to the questions that arose in this thread.

[jaime1982]

Man, some of yall have gone off the deep end. Ss, dl, pics of ids lmao... might as well run a credit report too



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[cva34]

Originally Posted by kck

Bill of sale, printed name and signed by both parties with either SS# or DL#.

and photo of seller and buyer....Print both and save in file

[MadHatter]

Originally Posted by jaime1982

Man, some of yall have gone off the deep end. Ss, dl, pics of ids lmao... might as well run a credit report too



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And it's getting more and more popular .
Had a couple memebers try and do that in the last year.
Easy enough to just walk away and I did, but I really wanted one of em lol.

[SPUD]

Originally Posted by tdwinklr

ATF tracing back to me for something I would not have done. They may be separate items but same info is involved.
You do the same thing with a car, fill out a form releasing your liability, if you don't go with the buyer to the tax office and transfer your title/tags there. I've had that come back to bite me before where the buyer didn't do their part.

The best thing for you if you are this concerned about it is to NOT ever sell/trade a gun

[SPUD]

Originally Posted by kck

Bill of sale, printed name and signed by both parties with either SS# or DL#.

Originally Posted by Capp35

I just do a bill of sale and take a pic of their drivers license.
Not much more you can do.

Originally Posted by jaime1982

Man, some of yall have gone off the deep end. Ss, dl, pics of ids lmao... might as well run a credit report too



Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by MadHatter

And it's getting more and more popular .
Had a couple memebers try and do that in the last year.
Easy enough to just walk away and I did, but I really wanted one of em lol.

I walk away from any seller wanting this info. Twice from TBHers

[trophy8]

Originally Posted by BrianL

Really really bad idea to give any individual your SS or DL #

Yep. I have and will continue to walk away from deals that either the buyer or seller wants that. I will show my CHL at a glance. But there’s no way I’m giving that info. If it costs me a deal either buying or selling then so be it.

[Hoggslayer]

Originally Posted by jaime1982

Man, some of yall have gone off the deep end. Ss, dl, pics of ids lmao... might as well run a credit report too



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I had one guy ask me for a stool sample.

[Tony Pic]

Originally Posted by Hoggslayer

I had one guy ask me for a stool sample.

So did you give him crap?

If I may.
I understand also that ATF has to purge all 4473 purchase requests within 90 days whether approved or not. They are not allowed to keep records of who bought and who did not.
Is this correct?