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Old 11-29-2018, 11:37 AM   #1
TXRM1280
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Default Forensic Gunsmith

Anyone know a Forensic gunsmith? Have a buddy whose rifle blew up when firing a round. He is okay but needs to find someone to take a closer look. Attachment 1


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Old 11-29-2018, 11:43 AM   #2
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Details, we need details!!

Reloads? Factory ammo? Looks like the bolt came apart.. could be bad metallurgy.
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:46 AM   #3
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Holy Crap!!!!
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:56 AM   #4
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Good Lord! Glad he is OK.
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:06 PM   #5
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Amazing he is okay with that kind of damage to the rifle. No help on the forensics, but i'm in for the details.
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:19 PM   #6
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looks like one in the mag went off
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:24 PM   #7
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Browning in a wsm?
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:25 PM   #8
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Browning A-bolt Medallion

Ammo is the first factor I would consider ... factory ammo bought off the shelf or hand loads ?

Could possibly be wrong cartridge loaded and fired, wrong/unsafe powder used in reloads.
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:25 PM   #9
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I had a pistol shoot itself once..scared the bejesus out of me. Luckily it went off in my safe. It was when Springfield was having their recalls. The back wall of my safe stopped the bullet. I was in another room when it did it, my parents were there, I was not happy. I'd agree it looks like one in the mag blew
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXRM1280 View Post
Anyone know a Forensic gunsmith? Have a buddy whose rifle blew up when firing a round. He is okay but needs to find someone to take a closer look. Attachment 1


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That will cause fecal evacuation syndrome.
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:48 PM   #11
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Glad to hear he didn't get hurt.
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalCowboy View Post
Details, we need details!!

Reloads? Factory ammo? Looks like the bolt came apart.. could be bad metallurgy.


Was shooting factory load at a target before going hunting. It wasnít the normal load he uses which is why he wanted to shoot at a target before hand. Although he says it was the right caliber. He is questioning everything he did but ultimately wants to have it checked over by the right person. Ear drums busted and doc said if they hadnít he would be deaf. Wonít ever do it again without hearing protection. Here is another pic.Name:  IMG_3203.jpg
Views: 1279
Size:  131.5 KB


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Old 11-29-2018, 12:51 PM   #13
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Looks like one in the mag blew up. If a primer weren't seated properly and it was sticking out a little, would it cause it to go off if it shook around in the magazine.

Reminds me of the lever action 30-30s with pointy bullets.
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXRM1280 View Post
Was shooting factory load at a target before going hunting. It wasnít the normal load he uses which is why he wanted to shoot at a target before hand. Although he says it was the right caliber. He is questioning everything he did but ultimately wants to have it checked over by the right person. Ear drums busted and doc said if they hadnít he would be deaf. Wonít ever do it again without hearing protection. Here is another pic.Attachment 935721


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Were there any bullets in the magazine? If so what do they look like?
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:54 PM   #15
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I watched a .50 cal with excessive headspace do something similar, seems to find the path of least resistance which is not the really thick chamber, so it just blows rearward
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:07 PM   #16
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Were there any bullets in the magazine? If so what do they look like?


Yes there were and he said they just fell out on the ground and looked fine.


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Old 11-29-2018, 01:11 PM   #17
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What caliber was it?
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tower43 View Post
I watched a .50 cal with excessive headspace do something similar, seems to find the path of least resistance which is not the really thick chamber, so it just blows rearward
^ this or the firing pin may have dropped/or was stuck protruded and the round went boom as he was racking the round before it was even completely chambered.
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:16 PM   #19
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Looks to me like something of this sort might happen if there was already a round chambered and then another round was attempted to be chambered. The pointy thing on the end of the round might ding the primer of the chambered round and Ka-Boom. I think they may refer to this as operator error.
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:16 PM   #20
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Glad he is ok. I lost 45 percent vision and had brass all in my right side of my face and neck.in 74 still have a peace imbedded in my fore head.
Appears to be metal fatigue. Saw the same thing after my boom and again in Trinidad while in gun smithing school.
Check to find out if this has happened to any others.
Then the Best deal is to get a hold of manufactorer and let them check it.
Take very detailed pics
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Old 11-29-2018, 02:05 PM   #21
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Never seen an action blow up like that. Usually it's the barrel that I see people having blow up.
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Old 11-29-2018, 02:10 PM   #22
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That ammo box looks suspect. Looks like it has severely faded and been not well taken care of, or stored properly. Wonder is that may have caused something.
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Old 11-29-2018, 02:18 PM   #23
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It looks to me like the bolt head is still locked up.
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Old 11-29-2018, 02:21 PM   #24
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First shot of the day?

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Old 11-29-2018, 02:25 PM   #25
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upon further inspection of the pic, he's very lucky the bolt shroud didn't disfigure the side of his right cheek/face.

other things to look for, obstruction in the barrel such as another bullet, cleaning rod jag, etc... which may have resulted in the pressure

was it a magnum round ? inspect the belt or case head of other cartridges in the ammo box as it could have been a defective piece of brass that was already split at the belt junction
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Old 11-29-2018, 04:27 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalCowboy View Post
It looks to me like the bolt head is still locked up.


Thatís correct. Shell is still in the gun


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Old 11-29-2018, 04:27 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by duckmanep View Post
First shot of the day?

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Yep


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Old 11-29-2018, 04:45 PM   #28
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Wonder what the outcome would have been if it was pillar bedded in a synthetic stock and an aluminum bedding block were used. May be lucky it was wood.
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Old 11-29-2018, 06:50 PM   #29
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As someone who owns a couple of these rifles Iíd like to know year of manufacture for the rifle just out of curiosity but as most have said most likely an ammo issue.


Sierracharlie outÖ
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Old 11-29-2018, 07:39 PM   #30
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I am thinking 308 in a 270, or something along those lines. Or a reload with the wrong powder, like a case full of bullseye. That took a lot of pressure and there are not too many ways to get that much
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Old 11-29-2018, 07:54 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJH1 View Post
I am thinking 308 in a 270, or something along those lines. Or a reload with the wrong powder, like a case full of bullseye. That took a lot of pressure and there are not too many ways to get that much


It was factory ammo.


Sierracharlie outÖ
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Old 11-29-2018, 08:05 PM   #32
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It was factory ammo.


Sierracharlie outÖ

Are you sure, that box looks old and plenty of people put reloads in factory boxes?
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Old 11-29-2018, 08:18 PM   #33
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Itís a browning A Bolt in 25.06. He said the ammo was a couple years old. Thatís all I know. If anything itís a **mn good reminder to double check whatever you put in your gun and always wear ear protection.


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Old 11-29-2018, 08:22 PM   #34
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I would really like to see what ammo is in the box
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Old 11-29-2018, 08:22 PM   #35
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It looks like the bolt was closed and locked down when it happened. Looks to be a freak accident and a shell went off in the magazine, maybe a piece of dirt or something happened to be on the primer and recoil set it off ??? Maybe I missed it but was he missing a shell or had one been set off? Is that a burn spot on the stock at the front of the mag box?
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Old 11-29-2018, 08:36 PM   #36
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Is the barrel clear now? No bullets stuck in it?
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Old 11-29-2018, 08:47 PM   #37
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It looks like the bolt was closed and locked down when it happened. Looks to be a freak accident and a shell went off in the magazine, maybe a piece of dirt or something happened to be on the primer and recoil set it off ??? Maybe I missed it but was he missing a shell or had one been set off? Is that a burn spot on the stock at the front of the mag box?


Only one he is certain that did go off was the round that was chambered. Other rounds fell out with no damage to them. I donít know what grain etc the round was. He showed this to me today in passing and asked if I knew of a ďforensic gunsmithĒ. I donít but told him I would consult the green screen and see what I could dig up.

Some really good points and questions brought up though. Thanks for the replies


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Old 11-29-2018, 08:59 PM   #38
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I can tell you from experience that an overpressure round will do exactly what happened here.

I had a 22-250 do something very similar. It cracked a McMillan stock to the point it had to be replaced, blew the bottom metal completely off, locked the bolt up so tight it wouldnít open.

Had to remove the barrel to get the bolt open, set back and rechamber.


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Old 11-29-2018, 09:15 PM   #39
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i'd say that a bore obstruction or the wrong ammo are by far the most likely culprits.
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:19 PM   #40
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Any pics of the spent case...I would think an obstruction would show evidence in the bbl itself. This stuff spooks me.
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:55 PM   #41
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Maybe accidently loaded a 260 Rem into that 25-06?
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:28 PM   #42
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PM sent
I may be able to find someone who can help you. Browning is owned by the Japanese now, so they might be a bit tricky to work with on a catastrophic failure.

Is there a bulge in the bore anywhere? You may not be able to see it from the outside, but you can shine a light in it, and see a black ring in the bore, and you should be able to feel it too.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:32 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJH1 View Post
Are you sure, that box looks old and plenty of people put reloads in factory boxes?


The OP said it was factory ammo so I have to assume so unless he was told wrong by the shooter? Idk


Sierracharlie outÖ
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:35 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistol View Post
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I may be able to find someone who can help you. Browning is owned by the Japanese now, so they might be a bit tricky to work with on a catastrophic failure.
Browning's parent company/owner (Herstal Group) is based out of Belgium. They have contracts with Miroku Corp. in Japan to produce shotguns and rifles.

OP, make sure your friend does NOT send the evidence to Browning in Utah as he will never see it again.

He wants someone to review forensics, IMO the ammo is equally liable. Rifles just don't go BOOM unless there's a problem with the ammo or obstruction in barrel. Powder charge and powder composition need to be examined as this could easily be a Federal issue

Last edited by Cajun Blake; 11-29-2018 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 11-30-2018, 12:29 AM   #45
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Looks like overpressure ammo, and/or case head separation. One way for it to happen is a bullet hanging in the rifling when the round is unloaded. Next round goes in and Kaboom. Usually a barrel obstruction in a centerfire splits the barrel.

My brother fired a .308 in his M700 .270. Didn't hurt the rifle at all. Had it inspected by a gunsmith, and x-rayed by a friend in the inspection biz.


Hope we get to find out what happened here. Glad he didn't get hurt.
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Old 11-30-2018, 01:11 AM   #46
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I think the term you are looking for is "Firearms Examiner". Most of the one's in Texas probably work for crime labs or own private firms consulting on criminal and civil cases. Defense attorneys in your area will probably have a contact for one that could take a look at it.
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Old 11-30-2018, 08:19 AM   #47
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I'm betting once the bolt head is removed and inspected, it will tell the tale.
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Old 11-30-2018, 08:43 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artos View Post
Any pics of the spent case...I would think an obstruction would show evidence in the bbl itself. This stuff spooks me.
Spent case is still in the gun. The bolt snapped and the casing is still lodged forward.
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Old 11-30-2018, 09:14 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajun Blake View Post
Browning's parent company/owner (Herstal Group) is based out of Belgium. They have contracts with Miroku Corp. in Japan to produce shotguns and rifles.

OP, make sure your friend does NOT send the evidence to Browning in Utah as he will never see it again.

He wants someone to review forensics, IMO the ammo is equally liable. Rifles just don't go BOOM unless there's a problem with the ammo or obstruction in barrel. Powder charge and powder composition need to be examined as this could easily be a Federal issue
Thanks for the correction, Cajun Blake. I knew I didn't say that correctly, but we both agree, do not send it back to Browning. I also agree, it is unlikely the problem was with the gun. The manner of catastrophic failure has me thinking bore obstruction of some sort. The obstruction is likely still in the bore too. I speak with first hand experience. I will tell you the story some day over a beer
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Old 11-30-2018, 09:20 PM   #50
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In for the answer

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