I feel the need for speed

[Lightning48]

I bet the KE is awesome at 308 fps!

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LOL, KE is nothing, but just a number and plays no critical role in the arrow. Momentum is the number you want besides the FOC number

[txoutdoorsman24]

I bet the KE is awesome at 308 fps!

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you know I'm not sure what that would calculate to but I get great penetration on every arrow I fling. had a pass through a doe at 60 yards just like a every doe at 20 yards. I like heavier set-ups and keep the FOC in line.



EDIT...
Literally just did this on Realtree's website
Your Setup is Suitable for...
This rig throws heavy arrows, and with a strong fixed-blade broadhead, it will work on any game animal on the planet.
Arrow Weight: 508 grains / Arrow Speed: 309 fps
Kinetic Energy: 107.68 foot-pounds
Momentum: 0.697 slugs

[yotethumper]

The more I bow hunt the heavier the arrow gets. Fixed heads only for me, although I can't bash rage I never had one fail but Murphy's Law convinced me. Momentum kills.

[RJH1]

Lets shift gears just a touch, and say all else the same, but maybe a 85 grain stinger, instead of the mechanical? Would that be a better route for a lighter speedy arrow?

I will try to chrono my bow witha couple different setups this afternoon so we can apply actual numbers

[antiparadigm]

you know I'm not sure what that would calculate to but I get great penetration on every arrow I fling. had a pass through a doe at 60 yards just like a every doe at 20 yards. I like heavier set-ups and keep the FOC in line.



EDIT...
Literally just did this on Realtree's website
Your Setup is Suitable for...
This rig throws heavy arrows, and with a strong fixed-blade broadhead, it will work on any game animal on the planet.
Arrow Weight: 508 grains / Arrow Speed: 309 fps
Kinetic Energy: 107.68 foot-pounds
Momentum: 0.697 slugs

It said the same thing about my 420 grain arrows at 292 ft per second. I think the whole deal is it all depends on what your goal is.

There are trade-offs with any setup, and the numbers don't always tell the whole story. People love to have numbers about FOC, momentum and weight but this neglects several very very important features like arrow diameter, wind resistance, and friction (slickness) of the arrow shaft, if talking purely about penetration. I have proven time and time again that the victory VAPs that I have, weighing in at 420 grains out penetrate arrows that weigh 610 grains (Easton FMJ Dangerous Game) at least in soft or cartilaginous tissues. A direct shot to the shoulder may be different (although I got a pass through on the shoulder this year). Back when most of the arrows out there were all pretty much the same diameter (more or less) the calculation was simple. Now with special friction reducing arrow coatings, (Victory ICE) micro diameters, and more, it's not apples to apples. I went from the Beaman ICS hunter arrows to the Victory VAP arrows, (Tried and demoed FMJs too) and at 70 yards my arrows still penetrate deeper and more accurately than anything else.

The whole point of the above being that the calculations can be a good baseline, but real life is much more dynamic. And the best thing to do is like what I did, and buy one of each arrow you are considering custom cut from Lancaster archery and shoot it in your bow to see what you like. (Video coming soon)

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[az2tx]

This is the kind of info i am looking for, thanks for your reply. The deer that are wounded that would be dead with fixed blades, why are they only wounded with the mechanicals? Do they break, not open, etc? I am in no way trying to start a brand war, but do some mechanicals fail at a higher rate?

They open most of the time, this year we had one were the shot was a bit high and caught the edge of the shoulder blade, a good fixed would have gotten thru to the spine.

The other problems are with angles or quartering shots, I've seen where they fail to penetrates and run along under the hide on the outside of the rib cage.

[xman59]

Does light arrow weight and mechanical broadhead belong in the same sentence ? You be the judge.

I was thinking the same thing,, a great set up for failure..


if your going light for speed the last thing you want is a mechanical head, period!!!!!!

the magnus stingers fly exceptionally well at high speed and long range both, and they always work.. if your going to give up your momentum, go with a superior penetration/cutting head not one that will slow you down and reduce penetration

[Black-N-Red]

I shot light arrows a couple of years ago & had no problems. My set up at the time was a ChillR, GT Velocity, 100gr Rage x-treme 2.3” @ 64lbs with 30” draw. I got pass throughs on both deer I shot that year. They were only 18-20yrd shots. Then I changed things up, went heavy & slow. Last year I went back light for the speed & didn’t care for the performance I got. That set up was a Carbon Spyder 34, 70lb, 29”dl & 374gr zombie slayer with hypo’s. But I still wanted speed so I cured that, setup now PSE Full Throttle 29”, 70lbs, 497gr GT Pierce with 18% foc running 297fps.

[Loneaggie]

You can do it, sometimes its nice to do something different. Something like the Hexx or X-Impact will let you get weight/spine/and still have some decent FoC. I'd agree with Rat that overall over 290 is more finicky of fixed blades than below. I would say you'd want to go with a mech with a gradual entry angle and smaller diameter. An example would be heads like the Rage Hypo +p. You want to stay away from the bigger mechs as you just won't have the momentum to get pass throughs as reliably. You see this a lot on TV with hosts shooting decent DW but CE lighter arrows and 2" mech... and deer runs off with 12" of arrow hanging out. Vs other hosts shooting lower draw weights and mid-weight Eastons burying to the fletch in moose. Its not just chance. Chasing deer I think you can go about as light as you want as long as you pick the right BH and do your due diligence on BH flight testing.

[RJH1]

You can do it, sometimes its nice to do something different. Something like the Hexx or X-Impact will let you get weight/spine/and still have some decent FoC. I'd agree with Rat that overall over 290 is more finicky of fixed blades than below. I would say you'd want to go with a mech with a gradual entry angle and smaller diameter. An example would be heads like the Rage Hypo +p. You want to stay away from the bigger mechs as you just won't have the momentum to get pass throughs as reliably. You see this a lot on TV with hosts shooting decent DW but CE lighter arrows and 2" mech... and deer runs off with 12" of arrow hanging out. Vs other hosts shooting lower draw weights and mid-weight Eastons burying to the fletch in moose. Its not just chance. Chasing deer I think you can go about as light as you want as long as you pick the right BH and do your due diligence on BH flight testing.

Thanks for the insight. This sounds like what i am wanting to try. And i get that momentum is the main thing for a pass through but, this would be a whitetail doe set up, so not for big animals. And yeah, i am just wanting to tinker and try something a little different haha

[rocky]

if youre having trouble with fixed blades and anything over 280 fps sounds like you have a tuning issue... im getting 312-316 out of my bow and shoot nothing but fixed blades out past 80 yards grouping with my field tips

I have to agree with Rat. Speeds over 280 with fixed heads can create issues, even out of a well tuned bow. Yes,bows shooting speeds in excess of 280 plus, can be tuned to shoot field points and fixed broad heads to the same poi, but in a hunting situation, form can throw that out of the window. I set all my bows up to shoot around 280, and I shoot smaller cut mechanicals so that in a tough shot scenario, my arrow flies where my pin is. I’m not a heavy, high, foc guy, and don’t shoot high poundage, and only have a 28” dL, so my arrows weigh roughly 385 grains. Penetration has never been an issue as long as I don’t blow the shot.

[RJH1]

I did some chronoing today and i can get a 385 grain arrow total weight arrow (with 100 grain head) skipping along at 300 fps. moving to an 85 grain head put me @305. I think i am going to try the 385 grain at 300 fps set up and see how it goes, it will be 15 fps faster than my current setup of 425@285. I have some 100 grain fixed blades and if they seem problematic, i will try the mechs. If someone sees something that looks horrible, i haven't bought anything yet, so speak now haha. Once again, this will be for does and cull bucks, so not huge or heavy animals

[JB_Archery]

I am thinking of going to a light weight arrow set up for deer and such to flatten the trajectory a bit, and really, just cause i want to. So i am looking at the gt velocity 340 shafts and an 85 grain expandable, maybe rage? Not sure on the expandable as i have always used fixed blades. Any suggestions on a setup? Or is what i have listed good enough? That arrow/head combo will save me about 45 grains. Has anyone tried a rig like this and been horribly disappointed? I am hoping to get 310ish out of it. I have a 330ibo bow, 29.5" draw, and 68or 69 pounds draw weight, i cant remember

Thanks

With that set-up I would recommend a 300 spine arrow or even stiffer... with a 340 spine your going to have a tough time with broadhead tuning that arrow. I have found 290-300 FPS is the sweet spot but that is my opinion. The faster the arrow flight the less forgiving the bow is on accuracy. I shoot a 425 grain arrow with a 29” @ 72lbs bow around 295 FPS. I blew through an Axis bucks shoulders last summer which impressed me substantially. I would load the front of the arrow with a 30-40 grain outsert and still shoot a 100 grain tip. For anything from whitetail to Axis I wouldn’t shoot anything below a 405 grain arrow. Again just my opinion... good luck!

[Rat]

I did some chronoing today and i can get a 385 grain arrow total weight arrow (with 100 grain head) skipping along at 300 fps. moving to an 85 grain head put me @305. I think i am going to try the 385 grain at 300 fps set up and see how it goes, it will be 15 fps faster than my current setup of 425@285. I have some 100 grain fixed blades and if they seem problematic, i will try the mechs. If someone sees something that looks horrible, i haven't bought anything yet, so speak now haha. Once again, this will be for does and cull bucks, so not huge or heavy animals

With an 85 gr head = 5.3 gr per pound of draw weight @ 69 lbs.
With a 100 gr head = 5.5 gr per pound of draw weight @ 69 lbs.

From a safety perspective there is nothing wrong with either set up.

Build as much FOC as you can, but realistically you are probably looking at 10-13% with that set up. Just build as light as you can on the back end and as heavy as you can on the front end.

At that speed and that FOC tuning is going to have to be spot on, both arrow and bow (and you).

Build it.
Shoot it.
Let us know how it goes.

[RJH1]

With an 85 gr head = 5.3 gr per pound of draw weight @ 69 lbs.
With a 100 gr head = 5.5 gr per pound of draw weight @ 69 lbs.

From a safety perspective there is nothing wrong with either set up.

Build as much FOC as you can, but realistically you are probably looking at 10-13% with that set up. Just build as light as you can on the back end and as heavy as you can on the front end.

At that speed and that FOC tuning is going to have to be spot on, both arrow and bow (and you).

Build it.
Shoot it.
Let us know how it goes.

Oh yeah, we scaled my bow and it is #67