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Old 08-12-2022, 05:28 PM   #1
RiverRat1
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Default Medical bills -

I was raised to pay what I owe. I also believe in being debt free as much as possible.

So lets debate the new moral dilemma happening to good people every day.

Is there a point when they lie, cheat, steal, and plunder us with made up hospital charges where we say screw it and lie, cheat, steal in order to pay as little as possible?

The only way to avoid this happening is to pay $2-3k per month for great insurance. That's just not feasible either.

What will you do when it happens to you? Just assume that great insurance you have doesn't pay as much as you thought and you're stuck with 500k in bills.
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Old 08-12-2022, 05:52 PM   #2
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I was raised to pay what I owe. I also believe in being debt free as much as possible.

So lets debate the new moral dilemma happening to good people every day.

Is there a point when they lie, cheat, steal, and plunder us with made up hospital charges where we say screw it and lie, cheat, steal in order to pay as little as possible?

The only way to avoid this happening is to pay $2-3k per month for great insurance. That's just not feasible either.

What will you do when it happens to you? Just assume that great insurance you have doesn't pay as much as you thought and you're stuck with 500k in bills.
You can find medical insurance way less than that for an individual - IMO finding a high deductible plan that brings the premiums down significantly is way better than not being covered at all. In addition many folks qualify for a discount/subsidy if they buy it through the exchange. (depends on income).
Insurance companies are regulated by law and a written contract to pay legitimate medical bills. They clearly disclose what is and is not covered, Problem is most folks never take time to know what the exclusions, etc. are in their policy. In fact most all insurance plans require a pre-certification prior to approving a surgery or procedure. Once completed the insurance company outlines what will and will not be covered.

Last thing I would want for me or my family is to have a huge medical bill hanging over me forever.
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Old 08-12-2022, 05:57 PM   #3
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Same here, as far as paying what I owe and being debt free.

Most of the medical bills on serious injuries/illness are next to impossible to pay. I will pay a few dollars a month to each medical facility/physician on any debt I incur if/when it comes to that.

What is infuriating to me, is that illegal aliens that require medical attention get free of charge no questions asked
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Old 08-12-2022, 06:31 PM   #4
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normally we would say to shake the dirt off your sandals and disassociate from people or organizations like that. however this is kind of thing that you will most likely be forced to interact with them at some point. so that in mind, I'm of the opinion that you are in no way morally obligated to act in good faith with a person/organization that has proven to take every advantage, legal and illegal, against you. you are in a civil state of nature in this situation.
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Old 08-12-2022, 06:37 PM   #5
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Dont know where you came up with that figure a month. I have a preexisting condition and my insurance was 1200 for good insurance because I needed it. You can get emergency medical policy for 350 month. But if you want to see what they are charging you just request an itemize cost.
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Old 08-12-2022, 07:04 PM   #6
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Why doesn't the medical profession give you an estimate based on what is known beforehand? No where else does it that way, even dentist will tell you what it'll cost first. They can but they won't.
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Old 08-12-2022, 07:11 PM   #7
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Please read my post above. They DO provide an estimate. It is called PreCertification. Most all insurance companies require it before you have a surgery or procedure. It outlines exactly what will and will not be covered.
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Old 08-12-2022, 07:15 PM   #8
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Default Medical bills -

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Why doesn't the medical profession give you an estimate based on what is known beforehand? No where else does it that way, even dentist will tell you what it'll cost first. They can but they won't.

The government regulations.

My wife is a medical billing guru. She contracts out to several practices.

Hospitals can operate on what insurance pays….they plan on that. Your out of pocket stuff is the gravy.

I almost died last year with a heart condition. Hospital billed my insurance $143k. My deductible was $7000. That is what my bill was.

Wife set up a payment plan and have been paying $100/month since October. Got a letter last week that we were done.

Too many people ignore the billing office calls. They will deal with you. The most important thing is to pay something on the bill every month, even $50. Eventually they will write it off.


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Last edited by 175gr7.62; 08-12-2022 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 08-12-2022, 07:18 PM   #9
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The government regulations.

My wife is a medical billing guru. She contracts out to several practices.

Hospitals can operate on what insurance pays….they plan on that. Your out of pocket stuff is the gravy.

I almost died last year with a heart condition. Hospital billed my insurance $143k. My deductible was $7000. That is what my bill was.

Wife set up a payment plan and have been paying $100/month since October. Got a letter last week that we were done.

Too many people ignore the billing office calls. They will deal with you.


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So you shouldn't change your number and buy a new pickup? Like a liberal would do?
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Old 08-12-2022, 09:41 PM   #10
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Doctor/hospital bills eat our lunch every year. Take for example, my daughter had to have her tonsils removed. The hospital called and told us what it was going to cost. The doctor called and told us what it was going to cost. We paid both in full on the day of the surgery. This was about 2 months ago. We just got a bill in the mail for an additional $200 that we owe. It doesn’t make any sense at all.

Last December while on vacation, our daughter got sick at the flip of a switch. Good one minute and then REALLY bad the next. She was hospitalized for 3 days. The hospital had all of our information but we have still not gotten a bill from them, and we never paid anything while we were at the hospital. It just doesn’t make any sense.
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Old 08-12-2022, 09:54 PM   #11
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Please read my post above. They DO provide an estimate. It is called PreCertification. Most all insurance companies require it before you have a surgery or procedure. It outlines exactly what will and will not be covered.
I cancelled my July 18 eye surgery on the 11th because they would not tell me my cost. So, don't tell me they do PRECERTIFICATION. They might do it for the insurance companies but not for the patient, even when asked. Screw the medical profession.
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Old 08-12-2022, 10:36 PM   #12
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Some people have insurance….it’s called Gofundme

I predict two coming to tbh soon based on recent threads
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Old 08-12-2022, 10:37 PM   #13
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Some people have insurance….it’s called Gofundme

I predict two coming to tbh soon based on recent threads
Wrong about me.
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Old 08-12-2022, 10:47 PM   #14
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Starting to wonder who River Rat works for. All your post are what if scenarios. What would you do? Blogger?? I don’t know tell us what you would do? Chain yanker extraordinaire. Were you head of the debate club in Highschool?
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Old 08-12-2022, 11:24 PM   #15
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Starting to wonder who River Rat works for. All your post are what if scenarios. What would you do? Blogger?? I don’t know tell us what you would do? Chain yanker extraordinaire. Were you head of the debate club in Highschool?
good luck with that
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Old 08-13-2022, 02:09 AM   #16
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Realistically what could you do? I mean seriously. At most I'd pay $25 a month until I died and they'd still never get their money because it's impossible to be 500 years old. So sending me a bill in the mail for even half that amount is stupid on their part. Hospitals are in the business of losing money if they're sending out bills like that regularly. It's unrealistic to expect people to pay that. Doctors don't even make enough money to pay bills like that.

Illegals are exempt from paying hospital bills so screw 'em. I don't go to the hospital anyways so I don't have to worry about it. I'd rather just go to heaven and see Jesus. It's a lot cheaper. I ain't going broke over something that's temporary best believe that.

Snake bites and broken bones get treated at home. Doctors can kiss my grits. If my heart attacks me this very second I'll see y'all when I see ya. I'll take an aspirin and sleep it off.

Last edited by okrattler; 08-13-2022 at 02:17 AM.
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Old 08-13-2022, 02:41 AM   #17
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i don't interact with medical providers very often but when i do i always make it a point to ask what the cash price is. the answer is always "it depends on what insurance you have". then i inform them that what i mean by cash price is if i don't have insurance and want to pay in full out of pocket. dentists always get me a price, and i have yet to get a price from any other medical provider.

what needs to happen is at the state level we need attorneys general or class action lawsuits for sherman act violations (US code title 18 if i remember correctly). we don't need any new laws, just someone to enforce them.
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Old 08-13-2022, 06:35 AM   #18
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Some people have insurance….it’s called Gofundme

I predict two coming to tbh soon based on recent threads
Not here.
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Old 08-13-2022, 07:03 AM   #19
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Go to the insurance exchange online. Plug in your information and it will provide you a ton of medical plan options.

Open enrollment is coming up. No medical questions and no pre existing conditions. Based on your income there can be significant subsidies. The premiums are very reasonable in most cases.

Also there are high deductible plans you can select that lower the premiums significantly. Having a deductible to pay is way better than having an entire hospital/surgery bill to pay.
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Old 08-13-2022, 07:03 AM   #20
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https://www.healthcare.gov/subscribe...5&gclsrc=3p.ds

Last edited by Huntingfool; 08-13-2022 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 08-13-2022, 09:47 AM   #21
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good luck with that
It's top secret.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhall1414 View Post
i don't interact with medical providers very often but when i do i always make it a point to ask what the cash price is. the answer is always "it depends on what insurance you have". then i inform them that what i mean by cash price is if i don't have insurance and want to pay in full out of pocket. dentists always get me a price, and i have yet to get a price from any other medical provider.

what needs to happen is at the state level we need attorneys general or class action lawsuits for sherman act violations (US code title 18 if i remember correctly). we don't need any new laws, just someone to enforce them.
Same here. Not that I've tried many times. But for the couple times we did try nada.

Thanks for those who answered with their opinion. My opinion flip flops. But when they go full retard on me I do not think it's immoral to try and get out of it. If they tell me cash price up front and I agree then I'll pay it.

IMO - It's morally wrong to give free healthcare everything to "poor" people but charge the living crap out of anyone who works. Even if it's only a $8k deductible.

Do monthly insurance payments count towards the deductible?
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Old 08-13-2022, 10:00 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Huntingfool View Post
Go to the insurance exchange online. Plug in your information and it will provide you a ton of medical plan options.

Open enrollment is coming up. No medical questions and no pre existing conditions. Based on your income there can be significant subsidies. The premiums are very reasonable in most cases.

Also there are high deductible plans you can select that lower the premiums significantly. Having a deductible to pay is way better than having an entire hospital/surgery bill to pay.
You never answered my question. Why doesn't the medical profession give out an estimated bill TO THE PATIENT before doing anything? I don't buy a can of corn, Or have work done to my car without knowing.
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Old 08-13-2022, 10:16 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by 175gr7.62 View Post
The government regulations.

My wife is a medical billing guru. She contracts out to several practices.

Hospitals can operate on what insurance pays….they plan on that. Your out of pocket stuff is the gravy.

I almost died last year with a heart condition. Hospital billed my insurance $143k. My deductible was $7000. That is what my bill was.

Wife set up a payment plan and have been paying $100/month since October. Got a letter last week that we were done.

Too many people ignore the billing office calls. They will deal with you. The most important thing is to pay something on the bill every month, even $50. Eventually they will write it off.


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Yup, good description. I would also just add and encourage folks to ask what services being rendered are in and out of network. Folks get hit with that not knowing.
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Old 08-13-2022, 10:21 AM   #24
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You never answered my question. Why doesn't the medical profession give out an estimated bill TO THE PATIENT before doing anything? I don't buy a can of corn, Or have work done to my car without knowing.
They can, they can tell you your corn could cost $7.99 a bag or $7,999 a bag depending on variables , ie deductible, in /out network, complications, emergency care. Etc. There is absolutely no reason why you shouldn’t be able to get a ball park figure for your run of the mill scheduled procedure as long as you ask the right questions and confirm all services will be in network.
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Old 08-13-2022, 10:33 AM   #25
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Not here.
Hell I'd donate to it if you did Randy. Posts like his shows there is a ***** side of TBH as well.

To answer the OPs question, I have good insurance and still negotiate my out of pocket bills down when I can. My insurance company may pay the exorbitant prices to help cover for those not fortunate enough to have insurance or the illegals coming in, but I'm going to try to keep as much of my own money for my future expenditures as I can. I'm going to take advantage of negotiation and not lose any sleep over it.

If I was ever caught reaching insurance maximums due to a horrible debilitating illness or unfortunate accident with myself or the wife, and the number was too high even after negotiations, I would pay what I could afford monthly. I'd send something even if it was $50 a month(random number for discussion purposes) just to keep them off my tail. If they choose to write it off down the line then it is what it is. My "raising" mentality wouldn't take a hit when dealing in the medical expense world due to the markup and insurance games.. Owing a buddy, an electric bill or a mortgage payment is a different type of debt in my opinion...
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Old 08-13-2022, 10:40 AM   #26
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They can, they can tell you your corn could cost $7.99 a bag or $7,999 a bag depending on variables , ie deductible, in /out network, complications, emergency care. Etc. There is absolutely no reason why you shouldn’t be able to get a ball park figure for your run of the mill scheduled procedure as long as you ask the right questions and confirm all services will be in network.
THIS -
Insurance companies require pre certification prior to most all services like hospital stays, surgery, etc. Once the hospital or doctor receives it you can request a copy of it/estimate.

And he is correct - it also makes sure all providers are in network.
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Old 08-13-2022, 10:49 AM   #27
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The thought that just paying a small monthly payment for a large medical bill sounds good but in many cases it unfortuantely ends up in having file for bankruptcy.
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Old 08-13-2022, 11:00 AM   #28
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The thought that just paying a small monthly payment for a large medical bill sounds good but in many cases it unfortuantely ends up in having file for bankruptcy.
Those numbers are skewed. People purposely file bankruptcy to avoid paying debts, not because they had to. It sucks, but businesses do it often.
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Old 08-13-2022, 11:39 AM   #29
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I'll give you two examples that have happened to me that showed me the medical field are the biggest crooks in the world today. Paid off a doctors bill one time but it took a while to come up with the money. Sent the money to the hospital and ended up getting a note from the collections agency. So I call the hospital and explain what had happened so they said no problem it's taken care of. I didn't hear anything else about it for a while and come to find out if you're sent to collections they include some court fee. They let that build up until I owed $2500 in interest.

Second thing was I paid a company in full and about a month later I get a call and I'm told I owe them money. Turns out they got bought out by another company. So I get in touch with my insurance provider and they tell me no actually the company that contacted me owed me money. So I call back and they wouldn't pay me back they'd just argue with me. So I said to hell with it. Those pieces of **** can call you every day when you owe them but if it's the other way around they won't pay up.

I don't feel bad for any medical company that gets screwed out of money. They'd sure as hell do it to you if the roles were switched. I finally had to quit calling about my money cause I was ready to kill someone by the time I got off the phone. That guy had me so mad someone somewhere has a recording of me saying the f-word,n-word,s-word,p-word,etc.

Just don't pay em. To hell with it. They have to write it off eventually.

Last edited by okrattler; 08-13-2022 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 08-13-2022, 11:47 AM   #30
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Those numbers are skewed. People purposely file bankruptcy to avoid paying debts, not because they had to. It sucks, but businesses do it often.
That is why for the average Joe, there are 2 types of bankruptcy.

1. Chapter 7 which basically means you were put into a situation that was out of your control.

2. Chapter 13 which basically means you were irresponsible and created the problem yourself.


The rules are different for each one as to what can be written off and what you have to repay.
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Old 08-13-2022, 12:03 PM   #31
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My dad had a gap in insurance between jobs and when he could retire and get on Medicare. Had $300k to $400k in medical bills due to several heart issues. He didn't pay a single one. They stopped calling eventually. He is debt free (otherwise) and on SS now. Never got sued or anything.

Lots of folks probably drowning in debt due to this racket.
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Old 08-13-2022, 12:04 PM   #32
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Insurance under $700 (family)/ month deductible is usually around $3,000 then 100% covered after that. I agree there are a lot of BS medical charges out there. That’s just the gamble you take not carrying insurance at all or good insurance.


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Old 08-13-2022, 12:09 PM   #33
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They can, they can tell you your corn could cost $7.99 a bag or $7,999 a bag depending on variables , ie deductible, in /out network, complications, emergency care. Etc. There is absolutely no reason why you shouldn’t be able to get a ball park figure for your run of the mill scheduled procedure as long as you ask the right questions and confirm all services will be in network.
But, they don't. The doctors office had all my info for a couple of months before my scheduled cataract surgery and I gave it until the week before I cancelled the surgery Because they wouldn't tell me how much. The medical profession sucks.
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Old 08-13-2022, 12:30 PM   #34
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After reading all these stories and the pain and suffering some have been thorough, I and the wife feel very fortunate to have not incurred any debt due to medical bills. We are fortunate with insurance provided by firms we have worked for and now that we are retired, Medicare and supplemental has taken over, no medical bills, but we do pay premiums but way less than the bills for the surgeries we have had since retirement.
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Old 08-13-2022, 12:47 PM   #35
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I spent a good many years with no insurance. It was eye opening what I was able to negotiate and pay for a MRI versus what my good college buddy with gangster insurance had to pay just in his copay. Just a comparison in our out of wallet costs. Same MRI. Same facility. Same part of our body.

What did I learn from this? Don't give them your insurance info until you have done the math. You can always give it to them later.
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Old 08-13-2022, 05:04 PM   #36
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But, they don't. The doctors office had all my info for a couple of months before my scheduled cataract surgery and I gave it until the week before I cancelled the surgery Because they wouldn't tell me how much. The medical profession sucks.
Sounds like you had an unfortunate event. Good thing is you can shop around for another doc. Good luck in your search
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Old 08-13-2022, 05:29 PM   #37
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Sounds like you had an unfortunate event. Good thing is you can shop around for another doc. Good luck in your search
No, not really. This seems to be the norm lately and I have always had very good insurance. Up until my last two events, I hardly ever went to the doctor, never met my deductible. The first was about my big toe. Went to the doctor five times over two months, paying my copay each time, and then I get a bill from UT saying they were charging me for a hospital stay each time, $1800 each visit. I never went to the hospital, just the clinic off 45 in League City. C'mon, I was in there for 20 minutes or so, didn't get anything hospital related, just time with the doctor. My insurance picked up $1500 for each time but I ain't paying the difference. After seeing this, I cancelled my next appointment with the doctor and haven't been back. It is such a scam. And, then the incident with the eye doctor and them not telling me my cost which included UT again. I'll say it again, screw the medical profession.
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Old 08-13-2022, 08:12 PM   #38
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No, not really. This seems to be the norm lately and I have always had very good insurance. Up until my last two events, I hardly ever went to the doctor, never met my deductible. The first was about my big toe. Went to the doctor five times over two months, paying my copay each time, and then I get a bill from UT saying they were charging me for a hospital stay each time, $1800 each visit. I never went to the hospital, just the clinic off 45 in League City. C'mon, I was in there for 20 minutes or so, didn't get anything hospital related, just time with the doctor. My insurance picked up $1500 for each time but I ain't paying the difference. After seeing this, I cancelled my next appointment with the doctor and haven't been back. It is such a scam. And, then the incident with the eye doctor and them not telling me my cost which included UT again. I'll say it again, screw the medical profession.
Definitely sounds like you got to deal with some crappy billing folks. Hope you find some good folks to help you with your next medical need.
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Old 08-13-2022, 08:37 PM   #39
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I may ruffle some feathers with this but lets talk some reality and truth here.

Many post here about folks talking about and advising how to NOT PAY their medical bills. Many Post about how to get out of paying a hospital or doctors for services you received. Either you don't pay or you just pay a little.

If you did not take care of YOUR business and find some health insurance then that is on you. I posted multiple times here that anyone now days can find health insurance for very low cost or even NO COST if you take the time to research the health insurance exchange - there is no excuse now days for not having health insurance - period.

But when you do not pay your medical bills then guess what? The cost for everyone else goes up - those of us that pay our bills end up paying more because you did not pay YOUR bill. You wonder why hospital and doctors fees are huge? Because folks like some of you do not pay your bills.

Apparently this is the way of the world today - ridiculous

Rant over
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Old 08-13-2022, 08:43 PM   #40
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Yup lots act like libs and try to get out of paying their bills.
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Old 08-13-2022, 08:47 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Huntingfool View Post
I may ruffle some feathers with this but lets talk some reality and truth here.

Many post here about folks talking about and advising how to NOT PAY their medical bills. Many Post about how to get out of paying a hospital or doctors for services you received. Either you don't pay or you just pay a little.

If you did not take care of YOUR business and find some health insurance then that is on you. I posted multiple times here that anyone now days can find health insurance for very low cost or even NO COST if you take the time to research the health insurance exchange - there is no excuse now days for not having health insurance - period.

But when you do not pay your medical bills then guess what? The cost for everyone else goes up - those of us that pay our bills end up paying more because you did not pay YOUR bill. You wonder why hospital and doctors fees are huge? Because folks like some of you do not pay your bills.

Apparently this is the way of the world today - ridiculous

Rant over
Post up some actual links where this no cost health insurance is. I’ll be waiting. And yes I pay my bills!
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Old 08-13-2022, 08:51 PM   #42
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look in this thread - I posted where you can go on the exchange and plug in your info and see what is available - NO MEDICAL QUESTIONS TO ANSWER AND NO PRE EXISTING CONDITIONS - depends on income - please go back and read this thread -

IF you are not willing to spend a little time checking into what you can and cannot get for health insurance then that is on you - end of the day yes - it MAY cost some premium payments for good health insurance - welcome to the real world

Last edited by Huntingfool; 08-13-2022 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 08-13-2022, 08:55 PM   #43
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Recent experience I had

Last week I pulled a bone head move and got about a 1.5 inch gash in the top of my hand down to the bones. I know I need stitches so I drive to the Urgent Doc. While doing the paper work there on the touch screen the doctor comes out and asked where the cut is. (my hand is wrapped heavily in a towel because it got a vein and was a bleeder). I showed her on my good hand where the cut is and told her what happened. She said they couldnt stitch it there because there may be tendon issues. Id have to go to ER. Thats it, I didnt even finish filling out the paper work and she didnt see the cut. I did have a couple of tabs filled out on the tablet. I asked what to do with the screen I was on. "Ill take care of it" was their reply. So I left and went to the ER.
Today, I was wondering what I would owe the ER so I pulled up my insurance online. Well the Urgent Doc billed my insurance 1300 and I owe 200.

After calling and raising a stink, I received a new bill for my $35 co pay and the issue is settled. Im not saying dont pay you bills, but, what they do should be illegal. There should be set rate for procedures. I still have not received my bill for the ER visit. "Eagerly" waiting for that.....
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Old 08-13-2022, 08:57 PM   #44
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Yup lots act like libs and try to get out of paying their bills.



So....Is a person considered a lib if they negotiate the exorbitant out of pocket down and then pays the negotiated amount
after insurance pays their part?


Asking for a friend.
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Old 08-13-2022, 09:06 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntingfool View Post
look in this thread - I posted where you can go on the exchange and plug in your info and see what is available - NO MEDICAL QUESTIONS TO ANSWER AND NO PRE EXISTING CONDITIONS - depends on income - please go back and read this thread -

IF you are not willing to spend a little time checking into what you can and cannot get for health insurance then that is on you - end of the day yes - it MAY cost some premium payments for good health insurance - welcome to the real world
Now that makes sense. No cost to illegals and the lazy!
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Old 08-13-2022, 09:10 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart View Post
So....Is a person considered a lib if they negotiate the exorbitant out of pocket down and then pays the negotiated amount
after insurance pays their part?


Asking for a friend.
If they have insurance then it is cut and dried - you pay your deductible. Then if there is co-insurance you pay a percentage (usually 20%) and insurance pays the difference (usually 80%) until you reach your out of pocket maximum. At that point your insurance pays 100% - it all starts over at the first of each year.

There is NO NEGOTIATED AMOUNT if you have insurance coverage - EVERY insurance policy there is outlines exactly what your deductible is, your co-insurance, and your out of pocket maximum

Last edited by Huntingfool; 08-13-2022 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 08-13-2022, 09:10 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Electrican View Post

Now that makes sense. No cost to illegals and the lazy!
that has nothing to do with this thread - if you are a citizen of the USA then you have the choice whether to have health insurance or not - if you don't then you pay the consequence

Last edited by Huntingfool; 08-13-2022 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 08-13-2022, 09:11 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart View Post
So....Is a person considered a lib if they negotiate the exorbitant out of pocket down and then pays the negotiated amount
after insurance pays their part?


Asking for a friend.

Exactly….just because you negotiate a better deal, in my opinion, makes you a smart individual and you can still vote for TRUMP.
I personally have to disagree with $35 each Tylenol from a hospital.


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Old 08-13-2022, 09:15 PM   #49
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that has nothing to do with this thread
Still waiting for this NO COST insurance link! Crickets.. No depending on income crap. Post it up! Waiting!
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Old 08-13-2022, 09:23 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Huntingfool View Post
If they have insurance then it is cut and dried - you pay your deductible. Then if there is co-insurance you pay a percentage (usually 20%) and insurance pays the difference (usually 80%) until you reach your out of pocket maximum. At that point your insurance pays 100% - it all starts over at the first of each year.

There is NO NEGOTIATED AMOUNT if you have insurance coverage - EVERY insurance policy there is outlines exactly what your deductible is, your co-insurance, and your out of pocket maximum



That's horse****.... Folks negotiate the out of pocket medical bills (not including deductibles) they receive all the time after insurance pays their part.

Last edited by Smart; 08-13-2022 at 09:25 PM.
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