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Old 08-14-2018, 07:35 PM   #1
GoBears870
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Default Is 1.5Ē @ 100 accurate enough?

I have a Ruger M77 Mark II in .270 that I love and has lots of sentimental value. The best I can do with it is 1.5Ē 5-shot groups at 100 yards using 130gr Fusion and Core Lokt. Iíve tried premium loads and nothing works better. As far as Iím concerned thatís good enough for hunting over feeders in Texas, but I want to hunt the West going forward, and anticipate needing to get proficient to 300-400.

Is it possible for a gunsmith to do enough accurizing work to make this rifle sing? Or if I want to hunt elk and mulies in CO and NM, should I just spring for a dedicated rifle for that?
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Old 08-14-2018, 07:42 PM   #2
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Do you have any friends/family that hand load? If so, get with them and try to work up a load that the rifle likes better.

As far as accurizing it, I have never really messed with one of those but have heard they are a pain to bed the action due to the angled screw. You can also try free floating the barrel if it is not already.
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Old 08-14-2018, 07:44 PM   #3
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I sounds like youíve got a good 100-200 yard gun. Youíre shooting 1.5 MOA which will open your groups up to 6 inches at 400. Thatís assuming no human error is introduced. I donít think I could shoot 1.5 MOA at 400 with any rifle so to have a rifle that is already there leaves a little too much room for error for me. You may be a better shooter and 6Ē would be within the threshold of a medium body animal.


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Old 08-14-2018, 07:51 PM   #4
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Has it been cleaned? It could be copper fouling that is the problem.
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Old 08-14-2018, 07:59 PM   #5
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I have exact same gun and caliber. It was a 2” at best gun. Had the horrific factory trigger cleaned up and that has it with most factory loads shooting 1”- 1 1/2”.
Mine actually likes the cheap Winchester super x stuff best. It will always shoot 1” or less off bags

It will shoot minute of pig within my lethal range
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:06 PM   #6
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I’ll let you in on a little secret. Sight the gun in where the aiming point (crosshairs) are at the center of the five shot group. Now you are hitting with .75 inch of your aiming point. Plenty good enough to take game out to 500 yards.

It wasn’t that long ago that an 1.5 inch group was perfectly acceptable. It still is. Not everybody has the skill or weapon to put all the bullets in one hole. Internet snipers excepted. Practice, practice, practice.

Last edited by M16; 08-14-2018 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:08 PM   #7
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I’ve considered using this as an excuse to get into reloading myself. Just not sure if the juice would be worth the squeeze. It would be a big investment.

I run copper solvent about every 3 boxes now, but didn’t know much about that early in the rifle’s life
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M16 View Post
Iíll let you in on a little secret. Sight the gun in where the aiming point (crosshairs) are at the center of the five shot group. Now you are hitting with .75 inch of your aiming point. Plenty good enough to take game out to 500 yards.
Whoa.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:23 PM   #9
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In all reality it’s plenty accurate for lung/heart shots. If you were taking head shots I would like a more accurate gun but most people double lung them.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:32 PM   #10
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Depending on your rest, 1.5" groups at 100 yards could be impressive. I would think you rifle is fine for hunting out west.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigchiefj View Post
Depending on your rest, 1.5" groups at 100 yards could be impressive. I would think you rifle is fine for hunting out west.
Thatís the thing - this is on a lead sled. On a bag itís just outside 1.5Ē
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:39 PM   #12
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1.5 moa at 100 yards could get better or worse at 300 and 400 yards, you just don't know till you go shoot it at those ranges. And I definitely don't recommend shooting at an animal at a distance past where you have practiced / verified where your gun shoots at that range.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:43 PM   #13
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Rugers M77 are hit and miss on .5 MOA accuracy. Are you capable of shooting less than 1” groups? Your rest has a lot to do with it. Long story short, a guy with a custom rifle at the range was shooting 1.5” groups off his rest...I told him try mine. He shot a 3/4” group at 200yds. There’s a lot that goes into a tiny group. Rifle, ammo, rest, shooter, skill and a little luck some times. 1.5” groups at 100yds is more than capable of vital zone hits at 300yds so yes it’s accurate enough for hunting at moderate ranges.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:44 PM   #14
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Did anyone mention 6.5 creedmoore
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:48 PM   #15
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I have the ruger 270 with the boat paddle stock. I got it shooting to 5/8 inch at 100 by tightening the angle screw then backing it off a bit at a time until I hit the spot it shot best. That was with the federal fusion ammo. I saw a video on it but I can't find it now. Maybe u tube.
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:17 PM   #16
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What will you be hunting? Deer and elk or fleas and ticks? I don’t shoot a rifle much but I don’t need to put 5 shots in the same hole to kill deer and elk.
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:19 PM   #17
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1.5” is more than good enough. Elk are big.
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:21 PM   #18
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Got a M77 270 it likes 140 grain loads, timmney trigger and believe it or not the barrel donut thing. Still at best a 1" group gun. Hunt with that thing it works.
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:31 PM   #19
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Personally, I wouldn’t feel comfortable with a 1.5” group at 100 and then shooting it 300-400 yards. I don’t have any gunsmith tricks or recommendations, other than I would consider a different gun for the longer ranges
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake Killa View Post
Did anyone mention 6.5 creedmoore
I would if I was serious about shooting beyond 500, but for realistic hunting distances (for me) Iíd like to stick with what I have
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Old 08-14-2018, 11:48 PM   #21
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Check torque of screws holding stock to action. The angled needs really tight, the others just tight enough to not fall out. That worked on mine. Several good articles out there.


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Old 08-15-2018, 12:39 AM   #22
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Get rid of that P O S Lead Sled and use sandbags. Best thing I ever did for zeroing my rifles.
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Old 08-15-2018, 12:54 AM   #23
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Check the barrel for contact with the stock. They will usually do a 1" group. I've owned several
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Old 08-15-2018, 01:36 AM   #24
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You would be amazed at how much more accurate your rifle will be by just changing out the factory trigger. If anything I would start there.
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Old 08-15-2018, 02:31 AM   #25
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Try shooting it at 300yds and see. Ive had more than one rifle that shot a load at 2-300yds that wasnt its best 100yd load
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Old 08-15-2018, 06:55 AM   #26
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Here is some info, be advised this is inch lbs and not ft lbs. Ruger customer service will also give this info and it does work. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...7_torque_specs
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:34 AM   #27
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Is 1.5" @100yds "good enough"?

Yes all day long

Is 1.5 MOA good enough?

Depends on how far you are shooting. The further you stretch it out, the more likely you are to wound or miss
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:25 AM   #28
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You need to shoot it at the distance your planning on hunting at. If your planning on shooting an animal at 400 yards you gotta get out there a drop boxes of ammo at 400 to see what it does. 5-600 even better.
Kinda like a bow. Practicing at 40 makes those 20 yards shots that much easier. I shoot out to 600 off bags or bipod and can hit vitals but Im not comfortable enough to that with an animal. My deer stand isn't set up like a shooting range. See what you can accurately shoot repeatedly and at what distance in a real life situation not sand bags, lead sled etc take your sticks or a front rest only without a rear etc. However you will be shooting and let that be your deciding factor for distance. At least that's what I do and it's worked so far
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:49 AM   #29
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Is it accurate enough to hunt with?
In just about all Texas hunting scenarios, YES.

is it accurate enough for elk out to 2-300 yards?
Yes, elk vitals are much larger than whitetail, but you should be ready to make a quick follow up shot just in case with lighter bullets than some preferred larger calibers, even though a .270 is plenty for all North American game.

Ways to improve accuracy?
It could be a ton of things that could be hindering getting the most out of your rifle. From your rest, to optics, to not right amount of torque on screws, head spacing, barrel touching stock, your rifle liking certain bullets better, the powder you are shooting, practicing more, etc.

Last year I shot a mulie at 647 yards with my 7mm that I had never shot past 500 yards. I know I’ll get flack for making that choice but I was comfortable and confident in my set up. I have experience shooting at those distances and know the gun so there was no doubt in my mind I could easily put one through both lungs. I think if your confident and know your capabilities/rifle that gun will do exactly what you want it to do.
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:55 AM   #30
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Sell it. Contact me.
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Old 08-15-2018, 12:27 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLID EAGLE View Post
Has it been cleaned? It could be copper fouling that is the problem.
I had a 308 that wasn't grouping, thought it was ammo. Good cleaning with a foaming agent, Magic Lube or Wipe Out (?) and back to 1".

But I agree with most posts, 1.5" good enough.
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Old 08-15-2018, 12:43 PM   #32
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Is the barrel free floating to the lug? Does it make contact with the stock when you shoot assuming you put downward pressure on the scope? I've heard that some old rifles reportedly had factory applied pressure to the barrel. Have you tried a different scope? Are the rings and bases torqued down properly? Have you really cleaned the barrel? Copper fouling will cause groups to open up. Can you adjust your trigger down below 2#? If not, consider a Timney or similar. If all those things check out and it only shoot 1.5" with a variety of factory loads, and you want to keep it and use it, then I would sell it or rebarel it.

Good luck.
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Old 08-15-2018, 12:55 PM   #33
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Lots of great pointers here - thanks

The barrel is not free floated - Ruger designed the front several inches of the stock to contact it but I'm not sure of the reason for this. I'm considering removing some of that material to free float it. If I screw it up, the replacement Hogue stock isn't that much money. A trigger would probably go a long way as well.

I have run two scopes on it over the years and neither seemed to shoot better than the other, but I have never had a high end optic on it. Everything has been torqued to spec with a Wheeler FAT wrench.

I'm betting fouling is a big issue here. I run patches of Hoppe's between boxes and copper solvent & brush every few boxes. But after shooting yesterday (which prompted my original post) I went after it harder than normal late last night. Every time I ran a brush through it, more fouling was loosened up. I would run solvent patches until they were clean, run the brush, and patches came out black again. This went on for probably 8 different cycles until I dried everything and quit for the night. I thought about taking it to a smith to complete the job but was quoted $100 for it this morning.
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:49 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBears870 View Post
Lots of great pointers here - thanks

The barrel is not free floated - Ruger designed the front several inches of the stock to contact it but I'm not sure of the reason for this. I'm considering removing some of that material to free float it. If I screw it up, the replacement Hogue stock isn't that much money. A trigger would probably go a long way as well.

I have run two scopes on it over the years and neither seemed to shoot better than the other, but I have never had a high end optic on it. Everything has been torqued to spec with a Wheeler FAT wrench.

I'm betting fouling is a big issue here. I run patches of Hoppe's between boxes and copper solvent & brush every few boxes. But after shooting yesterday (which prompted my original post) I went after it harder than normal late last night. Every time I ran a brush through it, more fouling was loosened up. I would run solvent patches until they were clean, run the brush, and patches came out black again. This went on for probably 8 different cycles until I dried everything and quit for the night. I thought about taking it to a smith to complete the job but was quoted $100 for it this morning.
Do not buy the hogue and expect an improvement. Very flimsy stocks. Not quality. Run iosso after you remove all copper build up. Itíll remove all carbon fouling. Itíll take it to near new. Rugers arenít known for accuracy. General have a very big freebore. I would try an accubond type Bullet or nosler partition. Iíve had a bunch of rugers. Most didnít shoot well. My 300 likes the Barnes vortx bullets quite a bit. .5Ē at 100. That 1.5Ē is good enough to kill animals. But Iíd try like heck to cut that in half to shoot at 400+.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:02 PM   #35
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I vote with copper cleaning and Trigger..both mentiond already...Its aleady within my limits...
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:10 PM   #36
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Try Dallas Reloads. I bet they can work up a load for you that may tighten that up.
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Old 08-16-2018, 11:42 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cva34 View Post
i vote with copper cleaning and trigger..both mentiond already...its aleady within my limits...
this^^^^
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Old 08-16-2018, 11:50 AM   #38
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More cleaning last night - same results. I have been using Hoppe's powder solvent, brass brush, Hoppe's copper remover, Gun Scrubber, powder solvent again till clean, then dry patch, in that order. When I repeat the process, I get dirty patches again after running the brush. I bought and used Gunslick Foaming Bore Cleaner yesterday - still got dirty patches after using it then running the same process before. So it appears I have a lot of layers of baked-on fouling. Any recs for new products to try?
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Old 08-16-2018, 01:51 PM   #39
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Sweets 7.62
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Old 08-16-2018, 02:58 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacticalCowboy View Post
Sweets 7.62


^^^^This and JB Bore paste is all I use any more. I've tried the Wipe Out with the accelerator and I still get dirty patches when I go back with 7.62 and JB.
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Old 08-16-2018, 03:41 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake Killa View Post
Did anyone mention 6.5 creedmoore
probably not because he did not ask about it, he asked about accuracy from his existing rifle
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Old 08-16-2018, 03:55 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by GoBears870 View Post
More cleaning last night - same results. I have been using Hoppe's powder solvent, brass brush, Hoppe's copper remover, Gun Scrubber, powder solvent again till clean, then dry patch, in that order. When I repeat the process, I get dirty patches again after running the brush. I bought and used Gunslick Foaming Bore Cleaner yesterday - still got dirty patches after using it then running the same process before. So it appears I have a lot of layers of baked-on fouling. Any recs for new products to try?
Iosso....
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Old 08-16-2018, 04:19 PM   #43
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Quote:
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Did anyone mention 6.5 creedmoore
Ha!
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Old 08-16-2018, 04:43 PM   #44
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I would say no but it depends on what your goal is. If you are just Texas Feeder hunting and won't shoot past 100 yards you will be fine but if you are planning on shooting at 200 or further than I would at least get under MOA. If you are 1.5 inches off at 100 then 200-300 you will be a lot further off.
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Old 08-16-2018, 05:08 PM   #45
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Only takes about $750 to make a Ruger shoot well.

Have a barrel put on it.
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Old 08-16-2018, 06:38 PM   #46
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Here's something that people have a hard time understanding. Most people smile when sighting in their gun and they hit the bullseye. They dance a jig and call it good. You can increase your hit probability by not doing this.

Target #2 has a direct hit in the bullseye. This is an 1 1/2 group. I did four just to make it simple. The higher and lower impacts are 1 inch from the bullseye. The far left is 1 1/2 inches from the bullseye. So at the most you are 1 1/2 inches from your point of aim.

Now let go to target #1. No shot in the bullseye but no sweat. The gun is sighted in correctly. Why you ask? Because the point of aim is in the center of the group that the gun is capable of shooting. The group is 1 1/2 inches. All four shots are within 3/4 inch of your aiming point. Congratulations! You just turned your rifle that shoots 1 1/2 inch groups to one that will hit within 3/4 inch of your aiming point.


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Old 08-16-2018, 06:44 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M16 View Post
Here's something that people have a hard time understanding. Most people smile when sighting in their gun and they hit the bullseye. They dance a jig and call it good. You can increase your hit probability by not doing this.

Target #2 has a direct hit in the bullseye. This is an 1 1/2 group. I did four just to make it simple. The higher and lower impacts are 1 inch from the bullseye. The far left is 1 1/2 inches from the bullseye. So at the most you are 1 1/2 inches from your point of aim.

Now let go to target #1. No shot in the bullseye but no sweat. The gun is sighted in correctly. Why you ask? Because the point of aim is in the center of the group that the gun is capable of shooting. The group is 1 1/2 inches. All four shots are within 3/4 inch of your aiming point. Congratulations! You just turned your rifle that shoots 1 1/2 inch groups to one that will hit within 3/4 inch of your aiming point.


Great news. The next one I get that shoots that way Iíll sell it to you haha
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Old 08-16-2018, 07:46 PM   #48
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Quote:
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Great news. The next one I get that shoots that way Iíll sell it to you haha
Long as it's cheap. I got mad hunting skills. I don't have to rely on fancy smancy equipment.
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:33 PM   #49
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Long as it's cheap. I got mad hunting skills. I don't have to rely on fancy smancy equipment.
Iíve seen what you post
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Old 08-17-2018, 01:43 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS3 View Post
What will you be hunting? Deer and elk or fleas and ticks? I donít shoot a rifle much but I donít need to put 5 shots in the same hole to kill deer and elk.
that..was good..lol
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