White settlement Church shooting

[Michael]

A good start would be when a full grown man tries to put the magazine in his Brand New automatic pistol that he is "qualifying" with BACKWARDS(bullets pointing at him) he should be immediately sent home..
SMH

Would sending him home educate him further? Seems counter-intuitive to me.

[flywise]

That is what I talked about earlier in the thread about playing what if. What if I was with my family at the mall and heard shots fired? Without going any further my response will be to move rapidly away from the gunshots and out of the mall and get into your car and leave. You can see videos of shots being fired at a location and you can tell that many people have no clue what to do. Many just freeze or try looking around to decide what they are going to do next. Like I said before, that is a bad time to start thinking of things when adrenaline is squirting out the top of your head.

It is my belief that if you think of things ahead of time, you will more likely respond quickly when something does happen. Physical practice is great but mental practice maybe more important and especially true if you’re not going to attack but merely survive.

They teach a class on active shooters call run, hide, fight although I think they have change the terminology to avoid, deny, defend. I know that some professionals don’t like that program but I think it is a good start. To make it short it means if you can escape, do so. If you cannot escape try to hide where you will not be found. If push comes to shove and you have no other option, attack the attacker preferably from a hidden spot.

But whether you go to a class or not, it takes a process going through it mentally. I have seen enough police videos of actual incidents and seeing some of the police survivors talk on camera to know that no matter what you were going to do, it would likely come out better if you think about it before hand. I have seen the videos where you can tell that the officer hesitated not because he is not trained because he has not thought of what to do. As I was taught in police survival classes, the body will not go where the mind has not previously gone. If you have thought about it beforehand then you’ll likely act quickly. If you have not thought about that scenario you would hesitate while your mind plays out your options. This might only take two or three seconds however that is two or three seconds that might cost you.

My best friend at work and I patrolled together for several years, were in Detectives together and routinely worked a housing project for security. We discussed and played out what we would do and the signals we would give if one of us was taken hostage. We also went over regular shooting incident scenarios and also trained at the gun range on addressing threats when we did not know until the last second which direction the threat would come from. We practiced drawing and engaging the target as we were moving but without knowing which way to move or engage until one of us was shout from behind what direction the threat was coming from. We did that with live fire on actual targets and varying timeframe where we’ve never really knew when or where the threat was coming from.

The main point of that is, he has shot and killed two people in the line of duty. On the last one about four years ago, I saw him about two hours after the shooting. Before I could open my mouth he looked at me and said, I did exactly what you and I trained to do. It was an instantaneous response and he told me without training like we did then it would likely not have come out the same. It was not the shooting skills which he has but the speed at which he realized the threat and moved to counteract it. He got off seven rounds in slightly over two seconds with two clear pauses in his shot string. I told him that he was probably reacquiring his front side and he said yes. When he would see the front side flashing front of his eyes, he would squeeze off a couple of rounds. The pauses were only about a 1/4 second but are very discernible on the video.

The whole point I have been trying to get at is to think about it before it ever happens. Hopefully it never will. For a very unfortunate few however, it will happen and thinking about it before is a lot better than thinking about it when shots are flying. From my experience going through scenarios about what if helps you react more quickly even if you do no physical training.

In my opinion

I agree with this 100%
As a fireman i constantly go over scenarios in my head and by watching youtube videos of structure fires. That type of mental training no doubt helps.

My church by the video is about the same size or smaller and I go over my response nearly every time im in there even though i rarely carry....but the conversation with my pastor and other elders will come up soon.

[bboswell]

I am only using your post to explain the old and new law.



You were absolutely correct that SB535 removed churches from prohibited locations.



The problem in reading that bill alone is that it cuts out most of the actual Penal Code section and just shows the changed part. If you go to the Penal Code and read the actual law but much further down (very long section) it says that the law prohibiting carry in churches does not apply unless they had a 30.06 sign.



So carrying in a church was only prohibited if the proper signage was posted. If that is true, why even have the law? Any place can prohibit lawful handgun license carry even today with a 30.06 or 30.07 sign.



I had to read it a couple of times to figure this one out back then.....



Any location could prohibit the lawful carry of a handgun even with a handgun license by merely posting the proper signs. Why was at church (and a couple of other places) different and placed under the prohibited places law?



The difference is...... one is a felony and one is a misdemeanor. So if Walmart put out a 30.06 sign and you violated the law, it was (and still is) a misdemeanor. If a church put out a 30.06 sign, it was a felony because of churches being put into the prohibited places section of the law.



What SB535 did was remove churches from the felony section. A church can still ban handguns by putting put out the 30.06 or 30.07 signs and it will still be against the law to carry in a church. Again SB535 didn’t change the requirement for the sign, it just changed the penalty by taking away the felony which is basically what you were correctly stating.



The other change in 2019 was for the private security law. A company acting as Private Security (not police officers) is required to have a state license. Several churches had their own security teams of just church members who were armed. It eventually came into the discussion that these church members were in fact acting like a security company requiring a license even though they may not be getting paid. It was a technicality that made churches possibly violating the law by having unlicensed “security”.



Was volunteering church members carrying handguns in church really the same as an unlicensed security company because they discussed “what if” scenarios?



I have my doubts however the legislature made it a moot point by changing that private security law and essentially exempted churches. I think it was SB2065.



Clear as mud?



2019 did not make church carry legal. It moved it from a felony to a misdemeanor if signs posted. Then we saw the waiving of a private security license for churches.



If anyone really cares at this point....

Excellent post

[yotethumper]

competed and won gold and silver the in the state police Olympics with handgun,,, never lost a match for accuracy or speed,,,

How can you never lose a match and win silver? I thought silver was for second place? Or did you somehow win gold and silver at the same time? Just curious.

[Traildust]

How can you never lose a match and win silver? I thought silver was for second place? Or did you somehow win gold and silver at the same time? Just curious.

Nice!

[bakin7005]

The 2A is not the problem and I do realize that it is nonnegotiable and that is a good thing.. Own all the guns you want.. Keep them at home.

My problem is with the CHL and how easy it is to get.. If a person is going to be "licensed" to conceal carry with loaded weapons, which MANY do, in crowded public places, then the training required and the proficiency one should have to demonstrate should be much greater then what it currently is.. Its almost a joke.. Seen it first hand..

I can "own all the guns I want.. keep them at home"?? Did I read that right. I thought you said you were as pro 2A as the next guy?... The right to bear arms as long as they're kept at home?
I'm having trouble processing this.....

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[PondPopper]

I can "own all the guns I want.. keep them at home"?? Did I read that right. I thought you said you were as pro 2A as the next guy?... The right to bear arms as long as they're kept at home?
I'm having trouble processing this.....

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Read the rest of my posts and you may or may not figure out what I mean..

But yea if you own a vehicle and do not know how to "safely" and responsibly handle/use it, drive it, then please leave it parked in your driveway.. No one wants to be at risk because someone else decides to be irresponsible.. Same goes for guns..

Some poor 61 year old lady was just killed New Years eve, hit in the top of the head by a falling bullet, because some idiot with a gun decided to shoot it into the air.. But that was his constitutional "Right"

[bakin7005]

Read the rest of my posts and you may or may not figure out what I mean..



But yea if you own a vehicle and do not know how to "safely" and responsibly handle/use it, drive it, then please leave it parked in your driveway.. No one wants to be at risk because someone else decides to be irresponsible.. Same goes for guns..



Some poor 61 year old lady was just killed New Years eve, hit in the top of the head by a falling bullet, because some idiot with a gun decided to shoot it into the air.. But that was his constitutional "Right"

Your not alone in your liberal views.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/usa-today-op-ed-texas-church-shooting

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[Gherkin05]

Read the rest of my posts and you may or may not figure out what I mean..



But yea if you own a vehicle and do not know how to "safely" and responsibly handle/use it, drive it, then please leave it parked in your driveway.. No one wants to be at risk because someone else decides to be irresponsible.. Same goes for guns..



Some poor 61 year old lady was just killed New Years eve, hit in the top of the head by a falling bullet, because some idiot with a gun decided to shoot it into the air.. But that was his constitutional "Right"

Freedom is scary stuff!

[curtintex]

Read the rest of my posts and you may or may not figure out what I mean..

But yea if you own a vehicle and do not know how to "safely" and responsibly handle/use it, drive it, then please leave it parked in your driveway.. No one wants to be at risk because someone else decides to be irresponsible.. Same goes for guns..

Some poor 61 year old lady was just killed New Years eve, hit in the top of the head by a falling bullet, because some idiot with a gun decided to shoot it into the air.. But that was his constitutional "Right"

Not a constitutional right to fire a gun into the air. That's already against the law. Has nothing to do with the right to bear arms. You can't twist truths to prove out your agenda. There are laws to prevent someone from reckless driving...even if they have a license. There are laws that prevent people from carrying recklessly. People like you, anxious to give away the rights of others, scare me almost as much as an active shooter.

[curtintex]

Would sending him home educate him further? Seems counter-intuitive to me.

Agreed. I think it would take someone about 2 minutes to show him the proper way to do it and I bet he'd never put a magazine in backward again. Someone taught me. Someone taught you. Someone taught all of us at some point. I was lucky enough to learn at a young age, but many didn't.

[Landrover]

Freedom is scary stuff!

Yes it is, yes it is.......but that is why it is desired in nearly every corner of the globe! [emoji289]

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[justletmein]

Read the rest of my posts and you may or may not figure out what I mean..

But yea if you own a vehicle and do not know how to "safely" and responsibly handle/use it, drive it, then please leave it parked in your driveway.. No one wants to be at risk because someone else decides to be irresponsible.. Same goes for guns..

Some poor 61 year old lady was just killed New Years eve, hit in the top of the head by a falling bullet, because some idiot with a gun decided to shoot it into the air.. But that was his constitutional "Right"

Please don't tell my teenagers driving a vehicle is now a constitutional right.

[Gherkin05]

Yes it is, yes it is.......but that is why it is desired in nearly every corner of the globe! [emoji289]

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Indeed. I’m amazed by the “regulate good decisions” mentally. I’ll accept the risks and keep my freedom.

[Landrover]

Indeed. I’m amazed by the “regulate good decisions” mentally. I’ll accept the risks and keep my freedom.

Here here!!![emoji2935]

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