Spikes?

[RMW]

Friend of darted 8 young spikes and notched their ears on his low fence ranch, none of the spikes got bigger than 130 inches and out of the 8 he darted he was only able to keep up with 5 of them the other 3 disappeared. And only 3 of them that he knows of lived to 6.

[powderburner]

The TPW study did more harm than good. If you read the study and really read it. It say yes they will get better but not as good as the others in that age class that were not spikes.
AGE CLASS.. That years FAWN Crop. So can you tell me the birthday of each fawn on your property. Was is bread in the early rut or late rut? or weeks before or after. Its like all kids. 2-3months is a ton of growing time.

People for years have used the study(which most have never read) as a reason to kill a deer. Spikes are almost always young and stupid.
I personally have never seen a 3yo or older spike.
I grew up in the kill spike era. I have multiple crown royal bags full of spike horns but I have not killed one in 15 years. We have hunted on the same ranch for 20years. We see spikes every year and the next year they are not spikes. I would rather let a kid kill a crappy 8pt or than a baby spike.
I would rather kill a crappy 7pt or whatever. You cannot eat the horns and a year almost gives me 25lbs more of meat.

[Jason Fry]

. I would rather let a kid kill a crappy 8pt or than a baby spike. I would rather kill a crappy 7pt or whatever. You cannot eat the horns and a year almost gives me 25lbs more of meat.

That's kind of where I settled after reading all this plus some other resources. I don't mind some "inferior" 4 year olds that used to be spikes, as it gives guests and kids more targets.

In the nephew scenario above, shoot the spike because it's less valuable as a 5 year old. I let my nephew shoot a 2 yo 8 pt. Kind of hurt in my mind, but it was the right thing to do for a first deer. Now my 16 and 17 year old kids who have half a dozen deer each, they are expected to learn to be selective.

[kyle1974]

Who’s the Daddy? We don’t shoot yearling spikes. We shoot culls at 3 at the earliest. If a spike is still a spike at 3, he gets a bullet, but I have yet to personally see a 3 year old spike. I know they exist, and some monster spikes have been killed, but a 2+ year old slick spike is pretty dang rare.

We have a screwed up extended rut and consequently, 2-3 month spread on fawns. Are they late born? Bad genetics? Who knows.

[dgilbert]

The issue with spikes is there's no age and score. Come on, they deserve it too!

[kyle1974]

So studies show that even after 4.5 years spikes aren't as good as non spikes and are passing on inferior genetics to their offspring. Kill'em

What studies? Other than the TPW study.

[Bowtech2004]

Our management strategy is.... If it's legal to shoot and it makes you happy shoot it! It has made deer camp much more enjoyable.

[bowmansdad]

On the little place I hunt, the only spikes I see are youngsters, the rest of the bucks are branched on one or both sides. Being AR, getting a 13” is tough since genetics here tend to be 10-12” spreads for the 3+ aged bucks. I won’t shoot spikes, does are off limits per the owner. I see a few older bucks each year that won’t make AR that I would shoot if I could, most disappear the Friday before opening day when the neighbors are sighting in their rifles or Thanksgiving weekend.

[RJH1]

What studies? Other than the TPW study.

I was referring back to that Parks and wildlife study alluded to earlier, so study would have been more correct. But also want to say I've seen other studies that show that while spikes do get better they never quite match their non Spike counterparts.

[kyle1974]

Spikes?

NM

[kyle1974]

Spikes?

I was referring back to that Parks and wildlife study alluded to earlier, so study would have been more correct. But also want to say I've seen other studies that show that while spikes do get better they never quite match their non Spike counterparts.

I gotcha.
I did have the opportunity to watch several deer on a very top end ranch several years ago. They were tagged with Double black ear tags as first year bucks (spikes).

One of them was well into the 170s as a 6 year old. The consensus of that study was the majority of them attained the average score for their age class by 4 years old. So maybe not exceptional deer, but not necessarily complete trash either.

[jshouse]

I gotcha.
I did have the opportunity to watch several deer on a very top end ranch several years ago. They were tagged with Double black ear tags as first year bucks (spikes).

One of them was well into the 170s as a 6 year old. The consensus of that study was the majority of them attained the average score for their age class by 4 years old. So maybe not exceptional deer, but not necessarily complete trash either.

what was the average score of all the 6yos?

edit: didnt see that added part...

[RJH1]

Here's what all this stuff really boils down to, if you're not killing spikes, you're not even beginning to try to alter genetics. If you're not trying to alter genetics, then you shouldn't be worried with things like protein feed because that makes a minuscule amount of difference on antlers compared to genetics. In fact genetics is the only real determining Factor in antler growth. So if you're not trying to alter genetics the next best thing you can do is allow for age, everything I've ever seen and every deer breeder I've ever talked to says that deer have the best antlers between 4 and 1/2 and 5 1/2. So if you're looking to kill the best deer that your place can make naturally, just shoot the bucks at four and a half or five and a half, because letting them go any longer their antler mass will reduce and since we are throwing genetics out the window, hoping they'll breed is kind of nonsensical as well.

The other option is go with if it's brown it's down which has the exact same effect on your deer herd as not shooting spikes, because overall you're not affecting the genetics of the deer anymore than if you wait to kill the deer at four and a half or five and a half.

In reality none of it much matters unless you're control huge swaths of land, or are within a hi fence. Because unless you're controlling genetics you're really not doing anything to really affect the deer herd.

So in total what I would do in a low fence situation is shoot spikes, because they'll probably never be as good as their non Spike counterpart, and I would wait on everything else I saw to get to be four and a half or five and a half if I was interested in shooting the biggest deer my place could make naturally. Or if I didn't have a large amount of land and depending on what the neighbors were doing, I would go with its brown it's down because that's probably all you're going to see. Have a good one

[jshouse]

Here's what all this stuff really boils down to, if you're not killing spikes, you're not even beginning to try to alter genetics. If you're not trying to alter genetics, then you shouldn't be worried with things like protein feed because that makes a minuscule amount of difference on antlers compared to genetics. In fact genetics is the only real determining Factor in antler growth. So if you're not trying to alter genetics the next best thing you can do is allow for age, everything I've ever seen and every deer breeder I've ever talked to says that deer have the best antlers between 4 and 1/2 and 5 1/2. So if you're looking to kill the best deer that your place can make naturally, just shoot the bucks at four and a half or five and a half, because letting them go any longer their antler mass will reduce and since we are throwing genetics out the window, hoping they'll breed is kind of nonsensical as well.

The other option is go with if it's brown it's down which has the exact same effect on your deer herd as not shooting spikes, because overall you're not affecting the genetics of the deer anymore than if you wait to kill the deer at four and a half or five and a half.

In reality none of it much matters unless you're control huge swaths of land, or are within a hi fence. Because unless you're controlling genetics you're really not doing anything to really affect the deer herd.

So in total what I would do in a low fence situation is shoot spikes, because they'll probably never be as good as their non Spike counterpart, and I would wait on everything else I saw to get to be four and a half or five and a half if I was interested in shooting the biggest deer my place could make naturally. Or if I didn't have a large amount of land and depending on what the neighbors were doing, I would go with its brown it's down because that's probably all you're going to see. Have a good one

I think you are off on peak antler age by about 3 years.

[kyle1974]

[emoji3166]