Read this and decide yourself

[Walker]

https://www.deerassociation.com/qdm-works-culling-doesnt/

[MadHatter]

Can we shoot spikes ?

[ontarget]

Very interesting

[txbowman12]

Makes sense - never thought culling bucks made much sense anyway when you consider 50% of the DNA comes from the Doe. When you consider that plus the effects of epigenetics, you aren't making a big impact even if a bucks antlers = their breeding value.

I do wonder though, this study doesn't really account for doe's genetics, it's just looking at big bucks that produce smaller bucks and vice versa to draw their conclusion. Isn't the real message that you can't tell which does are best, so the impact of culling bucks is minimal? Better off providing does good sources of browse and protein while they are carrying fawns.

[freerhunter16]

Our ranch plan would fall into the "Moderate" category. We do not shoot bucks less than 3 years old. We do cull pretty extensively from 3 years and beyond. In doing our culling, our goals aren't necessarily to change the genetics of the ranch, but to control what bucks get fed. We have to eliminate mouths from the ranch, so why not start from the bottom of the bottom of the gene pool?

In my opinion, the "intensive" plan in the article is flawed because it it does not mention taking does off the ranch along with the inferior bucks. If the doe numbers were managed along with the cull bucks, the ratio would not have shifted from 1:1 to 1:6 like the article stated. There would have been less deer total on the intensive portion of the study, but the goal would be to keep the ratio the same by eliminating does also. Therefore, you would have been left with less deer, so the remaining deer would have had great nutrients available to them. The average buck size would have increased due to eliminating mouths from the bottom of the gene pool. And, you would not have had the late conception/late fawning issue because the ration would still have been the same and there would still be enough bucks available to breed the does on the first estrus cycle.

[Gunnyart]

some people will never be convinced

[SB09]

Can we shoot spikes ?

No, no spikes at all because 99.9% are young.


I align fully with this article and can attest that it works.

[Walker]

I have no dog in the fight, no ranch, and no lease. I thought it was an interesting read none the less. TPWD has some interesting studies from the Kerr WMA too. My take on the whole deals is that if all biologists and "deer expertd" agreed then they couldn't sell themselves.

[bowmansdad]

Interesting read and I agree that age and nutrition are most important for a healthy deer herd. I hunted a HF ranch in SoTexas that fed protein and culled to remove the really bad horned bucks and does for herd balance and they harvested a bunch of older 160-200 deer. I hunt on a small AR county property where the deer are only fed corn, all legal bucks are harvested from what I see. What I see is all young illegal bucks, only seen 2 bucks I was confident were 4 yo’s in 4 years, I run a TC year round so I keep good tabs on them. I’m not seeing anything close to legal so I’m done for the year. So age and nutrition work from what I’ve seen.

[westtexducks]

some people will never be convinced

Yep. The cull side of our hunting culture is set fast and going to be hard to kill off.

[jshouse]

Our ranch plan would fall into the "Moderate" category. We do not shoot bucks less than 3 years old. We do cull pretty extensively from 3 years and beyond. In doing our culling, our goals aren't necessarily to change the genetics of the ranch, but to control what bucks get fed. We have to eliminate mouths from the ranch, so why not start from the bottom of the bottom of the gene pool?

In my opinion, the "intensive" plan in the article is flawed because it it does not mention taking does off the ranch along with the inferior bucks. If the doe numbers were managed along with the cull bucks, the ratio would not have shifted from 1:1 to 1:6 like the article stated. There would have been less deer total on the intensive portion of the study, but the goal would be to keep the ratio the same by eliminating does also. Therefore, you would have been left with less deer, so the remaining deer would have had great nutrients available to them. The average buck size would have increased due to eliminating mouths from the bottom of the gene pool. And, you would not have had the late conception/late fawning issue because the ration would still have been the same and there would still be enough bucks available to breed the does on the first estrus cycle.

I had the same questions about die harvest, I wish they would have mentioned what they did there.

Coming from low fence small lease guy, if that article is true then why are breeders spending thousands for straws from giant breeder bucks? Is is because they also know the bloodline of the doe?

[Duckologist]

Is is because they also know the bloodline of the doe?

More than likely yes, they do know the blood line of the doe.

[WhiplashTX]

I wish I could find the link but there was a breeder that had a lot of interesting data. His conclusion about genetics were the bucks made more of a difference than the does and you just never could tell about a bucks breeding potential. Their number one breeder buck never made it bigger than a 160" 10 but produced more 200"+ offspring than any other of their bigger breeder bucks.

[elgato]

I wish I could find the link but there was a breeder that had a lot of interesting data. His conclusion about genetics were the bucks made more of a difference than the does and you just never could tell about a bucks breeding potential. Their number one breeder buck never made it bigger than a 160" 10 but produced more 200"+ offspring than any other of their bigger breeder bucks.

Dr. Harry Jacobson had a buck like that years back in the research pens at Ms. State. Bucks name was Charlie best I remember and he never got much bigger than about 150" but produced more bucks over 170 than any other known buck in the world at the time. Offspring from Charlie launched breeder programs all over the country as that industry got started.

[lovemylegacy]

Awfully good read. Never understood the "cull" way of thinking. Let deer be deer.