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Old 10-18-2006, 06:19 PM   #1
mesquitecountry
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Default Fair Chase. High Fences & Feeders (Stirring the Hornet Nest)

Over the past couple of weeks i've had some of my out of state friends arguing about people having feeders and high fences. There are many pros and cons for each. Let me know what everyone thinks. I've hunted both high and low (currently high). I actually when it comes down to it prefer high fence (except nothing can go to P&Y or B&C.) I'll explain later in the post. Feeders? why the heck not. It's the best way to truly evaluate your deer. Plus it's no different than hunting over corn fields or oats or foodplots which out of state hunters defend saying is not near the same as a feeder. Whatever. Let me know what yall think. But i'm sure i'm going to stir up a hornets nest.
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Old 10-18-2006, 06:22 PM   #2
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You know this topic has been debated and debated. I have simply come to the fact WHY NOT!! If the people up north dont like it to bad! They can leave our deer alone!!
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Old 10-18-2006, 06:27 PM   #3
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Is it called beating a dead horse since the last crash left no data

Yeah, I think so:

Attachment 503
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Old 10-18-2006, 06:29 PM   #4
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Deerhunter30,are you ready?
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Old 10-18-2006, 06:33 PM   #5
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Honestly, if you start a thread while being 'sure you're going to stir a hornet's nest' then, chances are this is your intention.
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Old 10-18-2006, 06:34 PM   #6
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I have hunted high and low with feeders and no feeders.I dont like high when they are small other than that I dont care. I hunted with some guys from up North they didnt like the trucks,4 wheelers and golf carts we used either.They walked all over that 10,000 acre ranch for 2 days. Day 3 they ask for a ride and corn to put out.
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Old 10-18-2006, 06:37 PM   #7
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Since the archives are gone, I'll allow this to remain...for now. However, it will be under a watchful eye. Please be respectful in your post. Stirring the proverbial pot is not acceptable. Also, if you have nothing positive to contribute, please don't comment. As good as they may be, Junior Mints and Popcorn are not considered positive contributions!
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Old 10-18-2006, 06:43 PM   #8
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Since there is no record I'll go on the record as saying I could give a #@!$. Hunt'em if you like'em.
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Old 10-18-2006, 06:47 PM   #9
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OK, since this is an honest discussion for the moment, I'll play

I feel as long as it's legal and considered hunting, have at it.
Low fence, high fence, doesn't really matter to me. High fence doesn't give a hunter any advantage as long as it has cover. Big bucks find cover and don't come out for long periods of time and you never see them until one day you find the rack.

Feeding, well, like I said, if its legal than its alright.

That's all I got to say about that
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Old 10-18-2006, 06:47 PM   #10
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I really believe that it is up to the hunter. If you feel like it is unfair to hunt under corn and high fences, then don't. As long as it's fair chase it's alright in my book.
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Old 10-18-2006, 06:51 PM   #11
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I hunted high fence last week and the only time I saw the fence is when we went thru the gate. Also, these were some of the hard to hunt, wildest deer I have ever hunted. I never did get a shot at a big deer but the weather didn't want to cooperate either. To each his own I say.
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Old 10-18-2006, 06:53 PM   #12
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Question: Since we are currently putting up a high fence on one side of our land to deter (sp?) poachers and road hunters. Will this rule out P&Y if its only on one side and not all sides?
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:12 PM   #13
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I personally do not think I would like to hunt deer in a pen, but if others want to, then have at it. I also know where there is a herd of cows you can hunt, it's about the same in my book.

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Old 10-18-2006, 07:15 PM   #14
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Your quote explains it all BoneDigger!
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:15 PM   #15
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Since we haven't had one on the new forum yet, can we go ahead and turn this into a TTHA bashing thread too?

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Old 10-18-2006, 07:20 PM   #16
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LOL TB!

Bonedigger.....in case you don't know, all fenced places aren't "pens" and I've never heard of fenced deer acting anything like cows. If I hear one moo, I'll let you know.
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:25 PM   #17
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This thread will probably turn south at some point. If it is legal where is the argument? If it is not your style than dont do it.
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:26 PM   #18
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I also agree it is up to you, i hunted on a ranch that is high fenced opening weekend with 30 hunters out to kill does after the biologist said over 100 does needed to be taken out this year and there were zero does killed and very few even seen. Out of the 30 hunters only 3 of us were bow hunting, you can't tell me that isn't fair chase.
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:26 PM   #19
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B&C rules, and I believe P&Y as well say that an animal harvested in an enclosure with a gap of a minimum of 1000 feet of low fence will still qualify for the books.
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:32 PM   #20
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that is a good question Christian Redraider the place i hunt has a high fence on one side that a game ranch put up, i dont know what the rules are on that. If i shot a book deer i would be upset if they condierd that not 100% fair chase.
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:35 PM   #21
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Yeah...I snicker everytime when I hear those deer-driving, farm-country, holier-then-thou guys fuss about how we hunt in Texas...all-the-while hunting over a standing corn field with a plot of soybeans nearby.....and there's only 30 acres of brush inbetween for the deer to hide in.....

as I recall, the Texas Dream Season team kicked all there asses hunting on their turf.

Hunting pressure = smart deer......not fences or feeders.
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:39 PM   #22
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Bonedigger just poked the nest with the broom handle.

Fact of the matter is, high or low, challenge is defined by a number of factors. You go down to a well managed pasture on the King and tell me it's really hard to kill a P&Y class buck. There are just as many examples for either side of the fence. Until you've experienced several of them, it's pretty naive to make a judgement call. Challenge is also just as much defined by HOW you hunt as WHERE you hunt - it'd be hard to argue that sitting in a stand (weither it be over feed or not) is more challenging than spot & stalk.

We have the good fortune of having property with both low & high fenced pastures so our hunters can do whatever they feel comfortable. Never had a hunter comment that hunting in the high fence was easier than the free range side, and never had one stick to the low fenced side after 1 day of hunting.

Had some elk hunters from Co come down thinking it would be a cakewalk to come out and shoot a slew of ewes & pigs - they were pretty leary of the whole deal as a friend had talked them into it. . . .they didn't get anything, and not for lack of trying or opportunities - things just didn't come together, and they were a bit tougher than they had imagined.

Are there high-fenced places that are unfair. . . .certainly, but it's not the majority from what I've seen in Tx. Are there low fenced places that are unfair. . . certainly, but likewise, it's not the majority.
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:46 PM   #23
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I didnt realize that everyone was gonna go wild with the bashing of my topic. I just wanted everyone's honest opinion. I'm sure admin and their server is catching all the grief. Why is it that raising your fence 3 more feet causes everyone to turn in to ravaging coyotes on a wounded rabbit? The reason I'm asking was that I caught a lot of flack from people because i am currently trying to get on a 180 class 10 that shows sometimes and sometimes does not, that i've watched and has let matured. not some pen raised cow. sheesh.
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Old 10-18-2006, 07:54 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesquitecountry View Post
I didnt realize that everyone was gonna go wild with the bashing of my topic. I just wanted everyone's honest opinion. I'm sure admin and their server is catching all the grief. Why is it that raising your fence 3 more feet causes everyone to turn in to ravaging coyotes on a wounded rabbit? The reason I'm asking was that I caught a lot of flack from people because i am currently trying to get on a 180 class 10 that shows sometimes and sometimes does not, that i've watched and has let matured. not some pen raised cow. sheesh.
Are you really that surprised? I mean even in your title you stated, and I quote "stirring the hornet nest". So you must have already known you would get this type of reaction. In all honesty, you will always have differences in opinions and this is all that is. We as hunters are just more pasionate about our topics of discussions
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Old 10-18-2006, 08:00 PM   #25
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that title aptly came from one of my friends as i was entering the topic. apparently he was correct about what was gonna happen. yall are all right this will never be settled admin please delete this thread
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Old 10-18-2006, 08:01 PM   #26
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I dont see what the big deal is. I just hunted chambers for 4 days and at times you could swear there was not any deer on it. The ones that did come by are so jumpy i think they are harder to kill than any so called wild whitetail. Just leave this subject alone as I believe the ones that hate them are the jealous ones that either dont have them or cant hunt them...
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Old 10-18-2006, 08:07 PM   #27
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personaly if they dont liike it they can stay where they are at
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
thats what i had to say you all know what im thinking............
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Old 10-18-2006, 08:15 PM   #28
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i just saw an article in the Sept./Oct. TTHA magazine and it covers this topic perfectly, saying how there is no real definition to fair chase and corn and high fences are no different than other tools we use such as high powered rifles, bows shooting over 300 fps, electronic decoys, scents, basically anything you can think of. What it boiled down to is that all of these things give an advantage over our prey in some way.
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Old 10-18-2006, 08:15 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesquitecountry View Post
that title aptly came from one of my friends as i was entering the topic. apparently he was correct about what was gonna happen. yall are all right this will never be settled admin please delete this thread
Ahhh, I understand now. Well, your friend has done this before then

No worries, like admin said, the archives need to be refreshed
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Old 10-18-2006, 08:22 PM   #30
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Large high-fenced areas give game a sporting chance to elude hunters and predators. However, I don't blame B&C or P&Y for labeling it "not fair-chase." The line has to be drawn somewhere and they choose to draw it at high fences.

It surprises me that they allow game that is shot under a feeder to be entered into their books, though. I've used bait and I'll continue to do so under certain circumstances...hunting does and spikes, for example. Hogs are another candidate for bait, although I will spend most of my hog hunting time in the woods with no bait. I like getting out into the woods and searching for game on THEIR terms. I don't have to hunt to survive. I hunt for sport, and for me, that normally entails challenging myself to take on the game in their world...to outsmart them in their natural setting.

Those who say that game that is trapped behind a high fence is merely livestock are wrong. Likewise, those who say that corn and soybean fields are the same as a feeder are wrong.

I would not change the laws re: high fences and baiting. To each his own. I would like to see people be less defensive about the whole thing, though. If someone criticizes your position, smile, be polite, and just be logical. Don't get emotional. It solves nothing.
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Old 10-18-2006, 08:30 PM   #31
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Quote:
To each his own. I would like to see people be less defensive about the whole thing, though. If someone criticizes your position, smile, be polite, and just be logical. Don't get emotional. It solves nothing.
/applause

Well put
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Old 10-18-2006, 09:15 PM   #32
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:^) I just wanted to see if I could get a reaction. In all honesty, I don't have a problem with it. In fact, if I had the money I might try it. But then, I'm not rich so I probably won't get that option. Sounds like fair enough chase on an area that is big enough to hold a good population.

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Old 10-18-2006, 09:26 PM   #33
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My family and I ended up buying a 2600 acre place in zavala county that was high fenced and it was nice knowing that we could hunt our deer without wondering whether or not our neighbors were going to shoot a 4.5 yr old scoring 160 so that it can get to 180 and spread his genes around. It's been great for us we went from seeing deer scoring on the average of 135 to now about 155 4.5 and up. Plus protein and feeding has been great help increasing body size to 180 average field dress on bucks. Yet still i never know what i am going to see next. The previous owners high fenced because farmers would bring their friends out to shoot every deer that would walk into their spinach and cabbage fields. however there's nothing like the chance of killing a buck that will make the buck. By the way i believe the legality of it is if you have more than one thousand feet of fence lower than 7 feet it is fair chase i think. which equates to only around 350 yds.
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Old 10-18-2006, 09:27 PM   #34
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Bone Digger, you can hunt a high-fenced ranch the poor man's way. Apply for TPWD draw hunts like I do. A few of them are high-fenced such as the Kerr and Chapparal WMA's. There are some others, too. Chapparal has some giant bucks I have been told.
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Old 10-18-2006, 09:34 PM   #35
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you need to make more sausage and get off the computer. high fence, low fence, corn, no corn. who cares as long as you have a bow,a couple of arrows, and a cold beer at the camp.

see you at czhilispiel mesquite country
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Old 10-18-2006, 09:39 PM   #36
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bltiger, there's no need to be rude. This topic is obviously very important to you or you wouldn't get so emotional. Please don't feel threatened by others who hunt differently than you. People have a right to their opinions and to hunt how they choose. Quit insulting your fellow hunters.
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Old 10-18-2006, 09:40 PM   #37
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Well, if it's legal and ethical to you, then go for it.
I won't hunt a high fench ranch because I'd like to put a P&Y in the book. After that...
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Old 10-18-2006, 09:45 PM   #38
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I didn't read all of these posts on this subject but some of us are just as bad as the guys up north that were argueing about us using feeders and hunting behind high fences. Anyone who thinks every piece of huntable land up north has a corn field and "30" acres of woods for cover has not hunted northern Pa. and is just as misinformed as those up north about us.

I grew up hunting the hardwoods of Pa. Yep...there were corn fields and other grain fields along with wild grape vine areas around old strip mines but I never ran into any corn field that was only seperated by 30 acres. More like a half mile minimum between farms with lots of hemlock, pine and hardwoods inbetween. On a 160 acre corn field the deer may have 20 access routes to it depending on the wind and other variables so comparing that to hunting over a feeder is like comparing apples and oranges. Learning how to hunt trails to and from corn fields is much the same as figuring out the best place to set up feeders and hunting setups.

When I started hunting deer in Texas it was a learning experience. Just like someone born and raised in Texas moving to Pa. and hunting deer there for the first time. Good hunters learn and adapt...unsucessful ones don't!
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Old 10-18-2006, 09:49 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodhound View Post
bltiger, there's no need to be rude. This topic is obviously very important to you or you wouldn't get so emotional. Please don't feel threatened by others who hunt differently than you. People have a right to their opinions and to hunt how they choose. Quit insulting your fellow hunters.
BH,

Believe me when I say I do not care either way...But this topic has been presented for no other reason than to "Stir the Hornet's Nest"...This post should be removed but I understand there are no searches about this topic on the new TBH and my response was much like everyone else; this topic has been beaten to death for years on this site, new or not...
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Old 10-18-2006, 10:11 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bltiger View Post
BH,

Believe me when I say I do not care either way...But this topic has been presented for no other reason than to "Stir the Hornet's Nest"...This post should be removed but I understand there are no searches about this topic on the new TBH and my response was much like everyone else; this topic has been beaten to death for years on this site, new or not...
Not trying to be rude BH, might have come off like it but I could care less if you hunt behind a high fence, low fence, etc....And I'm not getting emotional believe me nor do I feel threatened! You sure did extract a ton of "emotional" qualities out of such a short post...This is MY opinion about this post, kind of funny how you are allowed to have an opinion about this post but I'm not??? And I didn't insult any hunters, I insulted the topic...I even told everyone to get along at the end!!!
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Old 10-18-2006, 10:18 PM   #41
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bltiger, I realize that this topic is a hornet's nest and that it has been and always will be raked over the coals. I don't think we should pretend the topic doesn't exist. If I get tired of the topic, I'll simply ignore any threads on it. I've only been bowhunting for 3 years now so I'm not burned out on any issues yet. Plus, there are always new hunters coming on the scene so there will always be people that are new to the topic. They will need to hear all sides to the debate. Hopefully they will be respected regardless of where they come down on the issue. [smiley face inserted here if I knew how on this new forum]
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Old 10-18-2006, 10:24 PM   #42
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I understand what you are saying BH about the debate! (I'm still learning the smiley face thing myself!) :-)
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Old 10-18-2006, 10:41 PM   #43
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As long as folks keep hunting a part of their lives and pass the tradition on to the young, I don't care how you hunt!
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Old 10-18-2006, 10:49 PM   #44
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I hunt and help guide on a relatively small 1200 acre high fenced piece of the Hill Country that has a very rough portion with no roads and is hunted hard, mostly for hogs. We document, photograph and video every deer we can, and have learned that when a buck reaches four years old we seldom see him again.

I'd bet a large portion of my retirement it would be easier to pattern and kill a mature whitetail buck in the cornfield country of the midwest or the riverbottom country of the mountains than it would the brush country of South Texas. The relatively small woodlots (like Jamie said) of those locales are way more confining than a high fence surrounding anything over about 300 acres of Texas brush.

Most critics of high fences have never hunted high fences.
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Old 10-18-2006, 10:51 PM   #45
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Quote:
Apply for TPWD draw hunts like I do. A few of them are high-fenced such as the Kerr and Chapparal WMA's. There are some others, too. Chapparal has some giant bucks I have been told.
I didnt know Chaparral was high fenced!!!! Cool I am going there in Jan! After 15yrs of putting in I hope i get to fling or squeeze the trigger!
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Old 10-18-2006, 10:54 PM   #46
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Congrats, Rattler! The Chap is a giant piece of high-fenced land with monster bucks I have heard.

WCB, I figured out the smilie thing. I have to click on "reply to thread" to see the smilies. I have previously just been typing into the box that is present at the end of the thread and submitting my posts from there.
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Old 10-18-2006, 10:55 PM   #47
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As long as it's legal,hunt how you want to hunt.

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Old 10-18-2006, 11:24 PM   #48
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To each his own. I grew up in Washington State and Ohio and never hunted feeders or high fences and had fun hunting this way. If you have never driven deer with friends in the snow you should try it, it is a fun way to hunt. Now having lived in Texas for the past 34 yrs I hunt a different way and enjoy that as well. I hunt over feeders and see nothing wrong with it but have to admit it is refreshing to hunt natural trails and natural food plots. I would not critizice anyone's way of hunting as long it is legal and will respect the person's right to hunt anyway they want. I personally would not like to hunt a small high fence ranch like the ones I have seen where it is basically shooting and not hunting. Good Hunting !!!!
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Old 10-18-2006, 11:34 PM   #49
AtTheWall
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Location: Kerrville - Boerne - Rockport
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Dad gum low fence...no feeder deer are dropping like flies through the lens. Just glad I don't have crosshairs on my lens otherwise I'm tagged out

Those deer working large ag areas aren't that easy either. Been there and done that. What we need to educate folks outside of Texas is very simple. Texas has over 1/4 percent of the entire US Whitetail herd population living and thriving here. Winters are mild, ranching lands prevail and parcel sizes are way larger than many of the other states with indigenous herds of whitetails. Just the numbers of animals here alone puts our odds way up on the list of opportunity. Ranching lands with excellent forbes/browse and mild winters places us very high on desired whitetail habitat. Pines and conifers aren't good habitats for whitetail and ag lands timbered to bare bones isn't good for carrying capacity.

Next time you fly anywhere in the US, stare out the window and view the terrain. Regions with a lot of ag are simply filled with parcels of plowed lands and not much cover. Deer simply don't have a lot of area to spread out. Add population densities well over a large percentage of what we have here, urbanization and such, and it's tough hunting and extremely pressured. Those plots of timber are hunted hard and the whitetail there get very nocturnal. Those honey holes that are hunted lightly with ag and suitable timbered habitat are not very common either. Anywhere along the East Coast in ag areas you will find whitetail will high tail it the minute they see a pickup truck. They are hunted hard and couple that with outlaw hunters and things are pushed over the top. Some states out east still allow whitetail hunts with dogs and shotguns (Virginia and North Carolina to name a couple). Here in Texas we are very fortunate our average land size is still over 1000-2000 acres. Out east and up north in regions that have been owned for literally a hundred years longer than Texas, they have been carved up through the generations to a point, 500 acres is a good sized place.

Out west it opens up but the native browse/forbes aren't the best for whitetail either. Lots of conifers there too and further North into Washington all the way to Maine and several hundred miles to the south of the Canadian border...winters are brutally tough. Some years they do well but it trends on the winter. Tons of mule deer and whitetail die off due to exceptionally cold winters up there. I've seen and heard the stories of this. There are areas in Washington State that if and when that freak snow storm hits areas quickly before they can move out the passes, deer die. Whitetail typically will not move like a mule deer so adios to them and even the mule deer drop too. Some of these deer kill offs are entire counties due to snow and cold.

I will close by simply stating....we started the gears toward better whitetail management here in Texas years ago. Landowners, leasers etc. understand what needs to be done to improve and manage habitat. Many of those outside our State simply view deer as nuisance animals (farmers and such). They compete with their bottom line and farming is their life. We raise livestock in a large percentage of the State. The knowledge gained from that carries over to whitetail as well if the landowner desires to improve his wild game herds. Up north, whitetail hunting is more sport than business. Here in Texas whitetail supplements the ranch owners income.

Pretty straight forward to me.



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Old 10-18-2006, 11:39 PM   #50
mesquitecountry
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hey double lung you ready for the Ponson's BBQ Team to lay the smack down on the competition for Czhilispiel. By the way if your not in a bowstand next weekend come by Czhilispiel in Flatonia Tx on IH-10 halfway between san antonio and houston. Friday night aaron watson and lost cause sat. eli young and jason boland. also come by sat. and try some award winning ponson's bbq
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