Heavy 20 Cal bullets?

[catslayer]

There is not a ton of guys who probably will be interested in this... buut we will see. Hear me out

So with so many of the comp shooters going to smaller calibres, I keep wondering about doing something crazy as an experiment.

I LOVE the .204 ruger, but the BC on its bullets just suck, they push 4000+ fps and STILL get really good barrel life (3k+ rounds)

So... if somebody made a long skinny VLD style 20 cal with a really good BC (for calibre) would it not be a GREAT? Berger has a 55 grain with a .381... and I'm seeing reports of speeds of 3400ish, what about like a 62ish grainer? Maybe a 70? Wondering what BC of something like that would be in the real world

I mean you can make the pill heavy enough that you slow it down to 3000-3100 so it is comp legal. Going to have to tweak you twist rate for sure but that is fine. Might have to tweak mag so you can seat things farther out... and probably free bore too... But that's just planning

I'm thinking you could moderate load for it and its GOING to make 3k... and then sense its a moderate load you have top end speed and a solid BC with MUCH more barrel life than other high speed rounds (looking at you 6 dashers types).

Also because it is even LESS recoil than a 6mm you could then start lightening up your comp rigs so you can run them around easier and still have the benefits you get with heavy rigs...

People are going to say you'll get your @$$ kicked in the wind, but my experience with .204 is it bucks wind MUCH better than people expect. Now the typical speed of the round may be why this is... But I think it will do better than most think.

I'll lay it out one last way...

If I told you I had had a round that had a .5+ G1 BC, around .224 valk numbers(My guess it is would be higher but I have no way to check)

3000-3100 FPS muzzle velocity (350 FPS more than equivalent valk load)

Virtually no felt recoil with a SIGNIFICANTLY lighter gun

3k+ round barrel life

Would you be interested?

[McClain]

It is my understanding that Berger has discontinued the 20 cal 55s.

[catslayer]

It is my understanding that Berger has discontinued the 20 cal 55s.

they have, and thats kind of my point. I'm trying to see if anybody has tried it, or if their is even a WAY to... I found a boutique that makes 57 grainers but no published data on them

[txagyotebuster]

I'm no ballistician or bullet maker or barrel maker but. How fast would the twist need to be to stabilize a 70 grain 20 cal bullet? 1:6? I think you get too much spin and bullets would start coming apart. You need a 1:9 to stabilize a 70ish grain 22 cal bullet. The 20 would be longer yet.

[catslayer]

I'm no ballistician or bullet maker or barrel maker but. How fast would the twist need to be to stabilize a 70 grain 20 cal bullet? 1:6? I think you get too much spin and bullets would start coming apart. You need a 1:9 to stabilize a 70ish grain 22 cal bullet. The 20 would be longer yet.

Don't know... Solid is one way of handling that though...

Honestly I think 70 would get you too slow. Though the BC would be cool, I see no point in going below 3000 fps. I'm betting 65ish would be the sweet spot. The whole point on this is to not have to hot rod it to get the speed

I'll bet a 1-7 would do 65 grain no problem, 1-8 I bet gets it done in fact... 1-9... idk about 1-9 haha

[xman59]

what makes the 204 special is the velocity,, without it, it is simply a mediocre round,,, heavier bullets drop it down into the 223 velocity range and that already exists,,, so nothing looks like it will make it better than something else that is already available,,, except the raw speed ,,,,,

[catslayer]

what makes the 204 special is the velocity,, without it, it is simply a mediocre round,,, heavier bullets drop it down into the 223 velocity range and that already exists,,, so nothing looks like it will make it better than something else that is already available,,, except the raw speed ,,,,,

It is SIGNIFICANTLY faster still in every situation... your right the velocity and powder efficiency being its strong point. this still holds true as you increase bullet size...
lets take a 55 grain 224 Berger BC is .262
.204 Berger 55 grain is .381

204 is 3300-3400ish with 55 grainers reports higher as well but lets stay reasonable. So that's pushing the same weight bullet 300-400 fps FASTER than a regular .223

Now compare BC-BC... Lets go to a 69 Grain Siera TMK, BC is .375, Black hills clocks them at 2875... So with basically the same BC bullet (381-375) the 204 is pushing it 500 FPS FASTER! Lets take off 150 FPS for hand loads... so still 350 FPS faster

3400 isn't comp legal obviously so you have to increase size again slightly... get it to that 3000-3100 ball park, which will only INCREASE your BC...

[Capt Glenn]

Everything you are looking for can be found in .224. Choose your case option, there are many, and there are high BC bullets to stuff in it. Build a fast twist rifle and have fun. Splitting hairs between .204 and .224

I'd rather bullet manufacturers spend some time bringing out some more high BC .257 and .277 offerings than bring out .20 offerings that have a very limited use.

[catslayer]

Everything you are looking for can be found in .224. Choose your case option, there are many, and there are high BC bullets to stuff in it. Build a fast twist rifle and have fun. Splitting hairs between .204 and .224

I'd rather bullet manufacturers spend some time bringing out some more high BC .257 and .277 offerings than bring out .20 offerings that have a very limited use.

It can... in exchange for barrel life, powder efficiency, more wind drift and a worse BC lol

.257 I can maybe see some space for something interesting... better bullets for 25-06 making 25 creed a real thing... I'm going to completely disagree with you on the limited use on a 204 offering... it can do EVERYTHING a 223 can, and better at most of it.

[WhiplashTX]

There would be a very limited crowd that would be interested. You mentioned the competitor crowd but they wouldn't be interested. They have already done small caliber experiments and found that it didn't work consistently. There are only 2 ways to beat the wind, bullet weight and time of flight. Many of the 1K competitors that are shooting the dasher will have a 2nd rifle in 7mm or .30 shooting heavy bullets for when the wind is bad. The bulk of the 600 yard and closer crowd will stick to their short 6mm's.

Some of the varminters jumped on the 55gr Berger wagon and had 1:8 rifles built. The big problem that they saw was the fast twist would tear the lighter bullets apart and they were stuck with only shooting heavy bullets.

[catslayer]

There would be a very limited crowd that would be interested. You mentioned the competitor crowd but they wouldn't be interested. They have already done small caliber experiments and found that it didn't work consistently. There are only 2 ways to beat the wind, bullet weight and time of flight. Many of the 1K competitors that are shooting the dasher will have a 2nd rifle in 7mm or .30 shooting heavy bullets for when the wind is bad. The bulk of the 600 yard and closer crowd will stick to their short 6mm's.

Some of the varminters jumped on the 55gr Berger wagon and had 1:8 rifles built. The big problem that they saw was the fast twist would tear the lighter bullets apart and they were stuck with only shooting heavy bullets.

Would like to know what comp guys were running what... I hear tell of 22 creeds getting run but saw no evidence of it actually happening. What do you mean they didn't work consistently? Not trying to dispute I really would like to hear the problems they had.

jacket separation is a real issue with lighter stuff, but again as long as you know ahead of time then its not really an issue. Just know 40 grain is the LIGHTEST you can probably shoot.

[westtexducks]

It is an interesting concept but what lengths would you have to be getting on that diameter bullet to get it up to 70grs? At what point do you start running into it being so long you cant get it to stabilize properly?

I personally have no use for the heavy bullet in a varmint gun but I have also looked into this and thought about it before. It's an interesting concept to think about and it for sure would smoke a .223 all the way around. The allure of the .204 to me was having lightning fast speeds for point and shoot trajectories on a coyote out to 3-400 yards. But if you get somebody to build you one and run it I will be the first one to want to see the results.

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[catslayer]

It is an interesting concept but what lengths would you have to be getting on that diameter bullet to get it up to 70grs? At what point do you start running into it being so long you cant get it to stabilize properly?

I personally have no use for the heavy bullet in a varmint gun but I have also looked into this and thought about it before. It's an interesting concept to think about and it for sure would smoke a .223 all the way around. The allure of the .204 to me was having lightning fast speeds for point and shoot trajectories on a coyote out to 3-400 yards. But if you get somebody to build you one and run it I will be the first one to want to see the results.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

I talked to a bullet maker today about it. I posed the question to him and he sent me an AWESOME response. He said he has built them up to 60 grain, guy did really good with them a few years back at 600 yard comps. They had a BC of .450. He currently regularly makes a hollow point and a poly tip 55 grainer (Bc of .359 and .375) and a 52 with a BC of .379

His comment was 63+ grains to get to .5 BC...

Only real downside I have seen is energy past 800 really falls off, you might HAVE to have flashers on steel.

that said I understand the lazer beam idea... if its inside 400 point and click.

[TacticalCowboy]

It is SIGNIFICANTLY faster still in every situation... your right the velocity and powder efficiency being its strong point. this still holds true as you increase bullet size...
lets take a 55 grain 224 Berger BC is .262
.204 Berger 55 grain is .381

204 is 3300-3400ish with 55 grainers reports higher as well but lets stay reasonable. So that's pushing the same weight bullet 300-400 fps FASTER than a regular .223

Now compare BC-BC... Lets go to a 69 Grain Siera TMK, BC is .375, Black hills clocks them at 2875... So with basically the same BC bullet (381-375) the 204 is pushing it 500 FPS FASTER! Lets take off 150 FPS for hand loads... so still 350 FPS faster

3400 isn't comp legal obviously so you have to increase size again slightly... get it to that 3000-3100 ball park, which will only INCREASE your BC...

Where are you coming up with these numbers? According to the Hodgdon website, everything between 35 and 50 grain bullets (lightest listed for 223, heaviest for .204) are within 100FPS, with the 223 outpacing the 204 on the 50’s.

Also, the .204 is listed at 55k PSI, while the .223 is listed closer to 50k PSI. I’m willing to bet at equal pressures, the 223 will be faster.

Also, none of the hypothetical velocity talk has any merit. My 30-06 “could” shoot 150’s at 3000; the accuracy node is about 2750.