Help me with weight

[Foxtrot]

Ok, I shot a buck in KS back in Nov. I hit him directly in the shoulder at apprx 20yds. Shooting a 100gr Rage Hypodermic. The broadhead broke and there was about 1" of penetration beyond the Rage. My arrow was laying where he stood when I shot. Needless to say, I didn't recover the deer. On a side note, I saw the deer 4 days later dogging a doe about 1 mile from where I shot. He was a very distinct deer with very unique antlers so Im 100% confident it was him. He had a slight limp. Im assuming I hit the scapula.

As luck would have it, I was able to connect on a 156" Kansas dream buck later in the week. I double lunged him and didn't get a pass through. Shot him at 24 yds. I watched him run off with the arrow hanging out of him. Again, exact same set up as above. I made a successful recovery on this deer as I watched him fall after 125 yd sprint. This buck dressed 250lbs. The one I wounded was much larger. I estimate him to have been 350 on the hoof.

Im shooting a PSE DreamSeason EVO set @ 71lbs and 27.5" draw. Arrows are Carbon Express Maxima Hunters 350(8.9GPI) with a Nockturnal and the 100 grain Rage. My arrows are 26 7/16" long before nock and broadhead.

Based on my calculations, Im shooting 356.29 grains.

Im nervous that Im not shooting a heavy enough arrow.

Im thinking I need to go heavier. I know scapula shots r tough with an expandable though. I did switch broadheads recently and now I shoot Slick Tricks mainly. I still have a bunch of Rage, G5 Havocs and Montecs.

Thoughts on going heavier? If so, Is there anything I can do to my existing arrows to add significant weight? Also, how much heavier do I need to be? Im primarily hunt WT in TX and KS. Or should I look at a different arrow? Im partial to Carbon Express and prefer to keep shooting those. Im looking at the Mayhem Hunter SDS which are 11.1 GPI or the new Maxima Triads. Of course I would rather keep it as cheap as possible.

[ShaBow]

For starters the blade angle on the Rage Hypo is terrible for penetration. Did you weigh your arrows? or you just estimated? I would think they would be closer to 400gr like 380-390. I think you would be fine shooting a better penetrating head. If you want to shoot a Rage shoot the +P. A little less cut and better blade angle on those bigger deer. I really like the Sevr heads the 1.5 and 1.7. They make a 2.1 but the blade angle is too flat like the 2" Hypo for good penetration IMO for short draw guys like us.(I have a 27.5 draw also) We have shot lots of elk and muleys with them with good results even on farther shots. But it definitely won't hurt to go heavier.

[Foxtrot]

Im estimating the weight. I do have some of the +P but never shot anything with them

[WhiplashTX]

First thing I would do is make sure your bow is tuned and the arrows are flying straight. If your arrows are fling sideways penetration suffers. Examine the orientation of your arrows in the target, they should be perfectly parallel to your shot angle. Broadhead tuning goes a long way to enhance flight and after your finished your field point will hit the same spot too.

I have never been a mechanical nor a 100gr point fan. Mechanicals are just something extra that can possibly go wrong. !00 gr points are a good way to get some speed but at the expense of penetration and FOC. The slick tricks are a good choice in the 125gr.

I calculated your arrows at closer to 370 with a 100 gr point. Swap to a 125 and your pushing 400 which should be adequate. With your 350 splined arrows and shorter arrow length, you could swap out inserts to 50 grainers and still not be under spined. That would put you up to about 430 grains and close to 17% FOC which should be more than enough. I've been shooting a similar setup out of a 60lb Halon and the only animal that stopped an arrow was a zebra and it still exited the off side. No matter what setup you use, don't expect it to punch right through the actual shoulder bone.

[Foxtrot]

My bow is properly tuned. Actually had it checked before I went to KS.
Aaron at Hoffy’s takes good care of me.

Is it possible to remove the current inserts? I would def try that if I can remove them and add newer heavier inserts.

[wdtorque]

Agree with prior posts. I like CX Reds, go with a 125 grain head. Rages are a love/hate relationship with most people, but all agree "Stay away from the Shoulder." I don't shoot them in Kansas or elk hunting. My opinion, YRMV.

[Hex]

FWIW I've had great success with the SEVRs as well (1.5, 1.7 and 2.1) on whitetail and pigs. All pass throughs. Im a believer...but I also believe that just about all broadheads on the market today will get the job done.

[WhiplashTX]

Using the slick tricks, how close are they to hitting the same spot as your field points at 20 yards?

You can remove the inserts with a heavy weight and some momentum. Most use a drill bit that just fits inside the arrow but slides freely. Remove the knock and insert the drill bit. Hold the arrow in your hand with the point at the ceiling and your hand at the bottom, I use my pinky to keep the drill bit from falling out. Now sling your arm towards the ground so that the drill bit is driven at a high rate of speed to the other end of the arrow and slams into the insert. It may take 5-10 tries per arrow, I recommend doing this facing a wall in the garage.

[ctom87]

Office etiquette?

Jeez. meant to start a new thread. I'm an idiot.

[Drycreek3189]

Jeez. meant to start a new thread. I'm an idiot.

You need to use a heavier arrow..........and beat the hell out of her with it !

Ahhh, crap ! You were too quick in editing and now nobody knows what we’re talking about and they think we’re both idiots.....they may be right

[enewman]

No reason to be nervous on out thinking your arrow is to light. It is 100% to light. Haha. Don’t let all the people tell it’s not to light I kill deer every year with a light arrow. Well you had a failure. We don’t care what they are doing only you.

Not going to go into great detail. If you need me to that will be done through email.

But, bump to 450 to 500gr. Build the arrow weight with foc on the correct spine. Make sure you can tune the set up. Through away the rage broadheads get a good fixed cut on contact. Then most of your problems will go away.

Read the 12 penetration factors at the ashby foundation web page.

[enewman]

My bow is properly tuned. Actually had it checked before I went to KS.
Aaron at Hoffy’s takes good care of me.

Is it possible to remove the current inserts? I would def try that if I can remove them and add newer heavier inserts.

So you can shoot a bareshaft through paper at 20 yards and get a 1/2 or less tear.

Only you can test and shot to see no one else. If you can’t do this work on your tuning. Again tuning is done by you with the help of a bow shop. They cannot tune for you. They can only set the starting point.

[Tbarile]

I bumped my arrows up from 385 to 490 and are passing through deer with rage. I shoot a 60lb halon and 29” draw. I use the gold tip fact system to weight my arrows. Bow is more quiet and definitely penetrates better.

[brokeno]

Don't let one bad experience or shot placement change your set up.

[xman59]

mechanical's are far more prone to failure than fixed heads, period! having said that they are not all equal either,, was this shot a head failure, partially so at least but a failure to penetrate is not only the heads fault but the shaft weight and placement all get figured in the mix...

yes you should increase weight,,, 400 gr minimum and 450 -500 would certainly be better,, speed has little to no effect on killing with an arrow,, only weight, placement and cutting make the kill,,,, there are a lot of fantastic fixed heads on the market and you are on to one of them already... but a blade like a stinger will also increase your penetration at any weight and any location because of the longer taper to the cutting edge, reducing the "chopping "effect" that is more prevalent with a steeper angle like the slick tricks,,, not knocking the slick trick , it is a good head with a good reputation,,, but better does exist so don't be afraid to try different heads,,,