Deer University - Culling

[HighwayHunter]

Recently the Deer University podcast posted an episode about culling. Without getting into the nuts and bolts of the discussion, the end of the conversation between the two biologists came to the conclusion that culling bucks at any age doesn’t really work. I was curious to know what y’all thought about that. The reasoning behind why it doesn’t work (outside of the biologists potentially anecdotal first hand experience on his own ranch) is that just letting bucks reach 5-7 years old will increase the overall score of bucks on your property and that not all spikes are spikes, most specifically yearling spikes. What say the green screen?


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[bbqfan5909]

I do get a kick out of the “culled a spike” and it’s a 1 year old with culling tips. Now a kids first deer, sure. But for justifying one as a management deer, no.

[Drycreek3189]

Popcorn time !

[flywise]

There will never be a consensus on deer management. Everyone who hunts is a expert who completely disagree with 40 year long studies on the subject.
So, I'll kill spikes when I have 10 bucks the same age as the spikes that are better than a spike.

[TX_Hoghunter]

There will never be a consensus on deer management. Everyone who hunts is a expert who completely disagree with 40 year long studies on the subject.
So, I'll kill spikes when I have 10 bucks the same age as the spikes that are better than a spike.

Its the same age deal that keeps me from killing any. Where we hunt the first born fawns can be as much as 4 months older than the youngest. They are all in the same age class but the youngest deer that are almost always spikes can easily be genetically better but will not catch up for several years. If everything was bred the same day then it would be different to me.

-john

[88 Bound]

I heard it too and found it very interesting. While I found a few of the procedures a bit controversial, the main message made sense. I can tell you that our lease is very doe-heavy and we have tons of spikes and raghorn young bucks year over year. Most of the guys want to cull them but we’re chasing our tail by doing so. Until we get the doe population under control, we will always have late breeding which makes late fawns which makes bucks that will forever be behind the curve. Thin out the does and address the issue that way.

We as humans love to cull deer. Why? Because we enjoy the kill. Culling is a justification. I can tell you that in 15 years of moderate to aggressive culling on our 6k acres, the number of cull bucks each year never really changes.

I also do strongly agree with how much they mentioned the weather affects the deer herd. I will definitely be tuning in to a few more of their podcasts to hear some more of their theories.

[HighwayHunter]

Not trying to stir anything up. I believe if your management plan works for your lease then keep doing it. Just curious as to how many people don’t cull at all and have seen positive results.


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[Beargrasstx]

It was a good listen. MSU deer lab is a good listen. The guy talking about this, wasn't he the biologist of Comanche Ranch in Texas? I found it to be very educational

[Mexico]

Yup I've read many studies on it. Culling in a low fence environment does absolutely nothing. And a high fence environment takes years of culling to actually see the affects of your efforts.

This is the exact reason we don't shoot a deer under 4 preferably 5 on our place. Let em roll and see what they turn into, many times I've been pleasantly surprised.

[Mexico]

I heard it too and found it very interesting. While I found a few of the procedures a bit controversial, the main message made sense. I can tell you that our lease is very doe-heavy and we have tons of spikes and raghorn young bucks year over year. Most of the guys want to cull them but we’re chasing our tail by doing so. Until we get the doe population under control, we will always have late breeding which makes late fawns which makes bucks that will forever be behind the curve. Thin out the does and address the issue that way.

We as humans love to cull deer. Why? Because we enjoy the kill. Culling is a justification. I can tell you that in 15 years of moderate to aggressive culling on our 6k acres, the number of cull bucks each year never really changes.

I also do strongly agree with how much they mentioned the weather affects the deer herd. I will definitely be tuning in to a few more of their podcasts to hear some more of their theories.

Cull= I need an excuse to kill a deer. I've seen it more times then I can count on TBH. It cracks me up! 2 or 3 year old 7 pt dead in a pic and the guy is saying " took out a cull".... uhhhh...no you didn't buddy you shot a young deer.

Now I have nothing against shooting a deer because you want to, just call it what is... killing! And leave the cull word out

[Darton]

Without age, genetics and nutrition mean nothing

[trophy8]

To me, culling on low fence is more to get some lesser mature bucks out and let other mature bucks in on new territory. Yes we shoot the mature management type deer. Yes I think wiping out a bunch of 6 points helps. But I think the big area you see improvement is letting new big deer come in

[texas shag]

we don't consider a buck for killing until he reaches 5+. and many times, we choose the lower scoring deer in an attempt for population control more than trying to change genetics. If we can keep the competition for food down, the deer that remain should be less stressed and will hopefully continue to express their full genetic potential. This yield has led some to believe the are improving the genetic composition, which isn't really true. if they were to stop shooting these deer, allowing their mouths to impact the range conditions, they would see the average score of their top end deer drop in addition to routinely seeing these lower scoring deer they arent shooting, and it would remain that way into the future until the numbers of mouths returns to below a level that the habitat can really support without stress.

All that to say I dont believe culling changes the genetic profile of your ranch in a low fence setting, but if done properly it does improve your remaining deer's ability to show their full potential by lowering stress and competition.

[AntlerCollector]

I believe culling works 100%. Every cull buck I've killed has never bred another Doe.

[Dale Moser]

Culling on a basic deer lease...isn't going to change a lot. If you have a 3 year old ****head and you need some meat, kill it. But all you really did is make one less buck, one less deer, and MAYBE keep him from breeding a time or two, but probably not. But it doesn't hurt.

In most of our situations, altering genetics just isn't going to happen.

But if you are on a lease with "enough" deer, and they allow it, eat up!

The does are 1/2 the equation anyway, and there is no way to know which have the best genes anyway.

So shoot your deer the way you want, and go hunting the next year.

Obviously a 2 or 3 or 4 year old that shows positive characteristics should be let go based on how long you think he can make it, but you don't know how much breeding he will get done either way.


KILLING ENOUGH DOES, imo is the way to make sure the stronger genes prevail, but we can make **** little difference in that regard either...genetics wise.


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