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Old 09-22-2020, 02:58 PM   #251
bloodtrailer28
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Originally Posted by IkemanTX View Post
Systemic means built into the system, and Iím not arguing that racism doesnít exist. People having prejudices does not equate to systemic racism. Unequal outcome does not equate to systemic racism. Outcomes you donít like do NOT equate to systemic racism.

Show me the systems that are systemically racist, where it is in those systems, and how the legal system allows it... Iíll give you a hint, it is called Affirmative Action. Affirmative Action is the ONLY legal prejudice based on race or gender in the United States. They are the only truly ďSystemiclyĒ racist examples out there. i.e. they are intentionally, and legally, integrated into the ACTUAL system.

The ďredlining lawsĒ you point to were ill-conceived in the first place. Their supposed intention was to remove prejudice in the approval process, but they were instead used to force banks into approving loans for people who didnít qualify for them mathematically. Banking institutions were held accountable for lower percentages of POC approval rates REGARDLESS of wether race was ever a factor in the approval decision or not. Once again... equal opportunity has never meant equal outcome.

You show me any institution that approves or rejects a loan (based on race) from any 2 people with equal credit rating/income/debt Load and I will help you tear them a new one. But donít try to come at me with race based approval ratings, in the aggregate, and try to claim it as some kind of proof.

And the biggest irony in your response is that you claimed I was short on facts while providing NOT A SINGLE ONE to refute me.


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Old 09-22-2020, 03:14 PM   #252
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The US systemically elected a 2 term black president...was said system interrupted for some reason??
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Old 09-22-2020, 03:17 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by IkemanTX View Post
Systemic means built into the system, and Iím not arguing that racism doesnít exist. People having prejudices does not equate to systemic racism. Unequal outcome does not equate to systemic racism. Outcomes you donít like do NOT equate to systemic racism.

Show me the systems that are systemically racist, where it is in those systems, and how the legal system allows it... Iíll give you a hint, it is called Affirmative Action. Affirmative Action is the ONLY legal prejudice based on race or gender in the United States. They are the only truly ďSystemiclyĒ racist examples out there. i.e. they are intentionally, and legally, integrated into the ACTUAL system.

The ďredlining lawsĒ you point to were ill-conceived in the first place. Their supposed intention was to remove prejudice in the approval process, but they were instead used to force banks into approving loans for people who didnít qualify for them mathematically. Banking institutions were held accountable for lower percentages of POC approval rates REGARDLESS of wether race was ever a factor in the approval decision or not. Once again... equal opportunity has never meant equal outcome.

You show me any institution that approves or rejects a loan (based on race) from any 2 people with equal credit rating/income/debt Load and I will help you tear them a new one. But donít try to come at me with race based approval ratings, in the aggregate, and try to claim it as some kind of proof.

And the biggest irony in your response is that you claimed I was short on facts while providing NOT A SINGLE ONE to refute me.


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Old 09-22-2020, 04:04 PM   #254
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Johnny I watched Earl torch them for a 80 plus yard run in the Dome. Those were physical games.
How about this hit on Campbell from your boys. lol


https://youtu.be/2yAnTm3338E
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Old 09-22-2020, 04:11 PM   #255
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Gotta love how folks pivot to their political talking points and counterpoints to try to prove something that clearly does exist doesn't. Call it what you will - racism, systemic racism, implicit bias or whatever - it does exist and the impact is real, albeit difficult to measure.

One of my closest friends is a strong Christian, hardcore conservative Republican and we've had an ongoing debate on race since this NFL stuff started. No matter what, he could not take his politics out of the equation. He could acknowledge racism was an issue but always fell back into the politics. Angry at anything suggesting he or we (Republicans) were inherently racist and associating anyone speaking up to racism as part of the left wing crazies.

One day we're talking and he shares that his daughter is dating a young black kid and what great kid he is, his parents are, etc. He then shared how hard it was to get there - in terms of accepting and believing he was a great kid as opposed to had it been a white kid. He admitted he was having a hard time understanding as he was / is absolutely certain he is not racist. I had to laugh because I had been through something similar.

It is called implicit bias - it is real and it is widespread. It isn't malicious or intentional but it explains many examples of "call it something other than systemic" racism.

Resumes with identical qualifications of people with ethnic sounding names receiving 50% fewer call backs than resumes with more common names. Homes owned by black families appraising at consistently lower $/Sq foot compared to white homes in same neighborhoods. Behavior reported as suspicious of blacks totally ignored of whites. Police more likely to draw guns or use deadly force. There are countless examples and studies illustrating these and the impact is real.

Ask yourself and I wouldn't expect anyone to reply much less be honest, but what would your immediate reaction be if a black guy wanted to join your lease, knocked on your door after dark, etc. Or if you started a new job and met a couple of black people along with a bunch of white guys. Would everyone start on equal footing in terms of what you had to see before concluding they were definitely good guys?

If you can honestly say you would absolutely see and judge them equally and instantly without bias, then more power to you. Because I will admit I still fall into that trap sometime as I did initially when these NFL protests started.
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Old 09-22-2020, 04:23 PM   #256
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How about this hit on Campbell from your boys. lol


https://youtu.be/2yAnTm3338E
Don't do that. I got stuck watching Earl highlights for 10 minutes
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Old 09-22-2020, 04:32 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by ttechdallas View Post
Gotta love how folks pivot to their political talking points and counterpoints to try to prove something that clearly does exist doesn't. Call it what you will - racism, systemic racism, implicit bias or whatever - it does exist and the impact is real, albeit difficult to measure.

One of my closest friends is a strong Christian, hardcore conservative Republican and we've had an ongoing debate on race since this NFL stuff started. No matter what, he could not take his politics out of the equation. He could acknowledge racism was an issue but always fell back into the politics. Angry at anything suggesting he or we (Republicans) were inherently racist and associating anyone speaking up to racism as part of the left wing crazies.

One day we're talking and he shares that his daughter is dating a young black kid and what great kid he is, his parents are, etc. He then shared how hard it was to get there - in terms of accepting and believing he was a great kid as opposed to had it been a white kid. He admitted he was having a hard time understanding as he was / is absolutely certain he is not racist. I had to laugh because I had been through something similar.

It is called implicit bias - it is real and it is widespread. It isn't malicious or intentional but it explains many examples of "call it something other than systemic" racism.

Resumes with identical qualifications of people with ethnic sounding names receiving 50% fewer call backs than resumes with more common names. Homes owned by black families appraising at consistently lower $/Sq foot compared to white homes in same neighborhoods. Behavior reported as suspicious of blacks totally ignored of whites. Police more likely to draw guns or use deadly force. There are countless examples and studies illustrating these and the impact is real.

Ask yourself and I wouldn't expect anyone to reply much less be honest, but what would your immediate reaction be if a black guy wanted to join your lease, knocked on your door after dark, etc. Or if you started a new job and met a couple of black people along with a bunch of white guys. Would everyone start on equal footing in terms of what you had to see before concluding they were definitely good guys?

If you can honestly say you would absolutely see and judge them equally and instantly without bias, then more power to you. Because I will admit I still fall into that trap sometime as I did initially when these NFL protests started.
I bet your buddy would have had similar feelings if the young man was Russian, Japanese, Iranian, etc... It is called being human and not understanding other races/cultures as well as your own. Doesn't mean he is the least bit racist. Everyone has perceived biases and stereotypes. It is human nature.

But his whole BLM and Kapernick movement started and is built on black folks being killed by police at a much higher rate than other races. That is a False Narrative and the statistics don't back it up. If they want to start a movement about a true narrative of some of the other issues you mentioned, I bet they would receive a lot more widespread support. Most critical thinking folks have a hard time supporting communists that are spreading false narratives.
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Old 09-22-2020, 05:13 PM   #258
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If 80% of crime came from guys driving F150's would you scream and yell when LEO pulled you over because you drove a F150?

Races put stereotypes on themselves. You dress like a thug with your underwear showing and expect people to think what exactly? Drive a gang banger car (doesn't matter what race your are) and what do you think people will be thinking? Or why in Hades would you expect them to think otherwise?

It's a mind bender for sure how people act, dress, etc so they can appear a certain way but then scream when people see them for exactly how they are... It's sort of like the slut dressed girl loving the attention from the hot guy but screams pervert when a guy she doesn't like gives her the same attention.
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Old 09-22-2020, 07:36 PM   #259
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Ask yourself and I wouldn't expect anyone to reply much less be honest, but what would your immediate reaction be if a black guy wanted to join your lease, knocked on your door after dark, etc. Or if you started a new job and met a couple of black people along with a bunch of white guys. Would everyone start on equal footing in terms of what you had to see before concluding they were definitely good guys?



This is beyond I insulting, nothing like someoneís litmus test for racism. If you truly believe this is how most people think then you have some major issues.
Iíll answer your questions
Black guy on my lease? Uhhh wouldnít even think twice, if I did Iím sure my BLACK brother in law might not appreciate it very much.
Black person knocks on my door at night - would handle it no different than any other time it has happened, I would equally use caution just as if it were a person of any other color.
Started a new job and there were black guys there, I wouldnít think twice whether they were ďgood guysĒ whatever that means.

Are these The thoughts that go through your head when you see black people? Seems like you may have the problem




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Old 09-22-2020, 08:37 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by IkemanTX View Post
Systemic means built into the system, and Iím not arguing that racism doesnít exist. People having prejudices does not equate to systemic racism. Unequal outcome does not equate to systemic racism. Outcomes you donít like do NOT equate to systemic racism.

Show me the systems that are systemically racist, where it is in those systems, and how the legal system allows it... Iíll give you a hint, it is called Affirmative Action. Affirmative Action is the ONLY legal prejudice based on race or gender in the United States. They are the only truly ďSystemiclyĒ racist examples out there. i.e. they are intentionally, and legally, integrated into the ACTUAL system.

The ďredlining lawsĒ you point to were ill-conceived in the first place. Their supposed intention was to remove prejudice in the approval process, but they were instead used to force banks into approving loans for people who didnít qualify for them mathematically. Banking institutions were held accountable for lower percentages of POC approval rates REGARDLESS of wether race was ever a factor in the approval decision or not. Once again... equal opportunity has never meant equal outcome.

You show me any institution that approves or rejects a loan (based on race) from any 2 people with equal credit rating/income/debt Load and I will help you tear them a new one. But donít try to come at me with race based approval ratings, in the aggregate, and try to claim it as some kind of proof.

And the biggest irony in your response is that you claimed I was short on facts while providing NOT A SINGLE ONE to refute me.


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On affirmative action we agree 100%. Iíve never wanted to check boxes that might be used to qualify me for something I didnít earn based on the fact that my father is an immigrant. Ideas like reparations and affirmative action are progressive constructs that I think do more damage than good.
Iíve been a Big Brother and I can tell you that kid had nothing like the opportunities I had. Sometimes I wondered how he could keep getting up in the morning and slugging it outó the odds are so stacked against him. Itís not his fault either. Maybe you could blame it on his father or mother or uncles or community or whatever, but you canít blame it on him. I donít think life is fair or that it necessarily needs to be but equality of opportunity is not a reality I see.
Redlining absolutely existed and is well documented. You can hand pick a couple of simplified examples in an attempt to substantiate your misplaced idea, but the fact is that thereís plenty of data that shows discriminatory practices based on race and geographic location, even when controlled for other risk factors. It still happens.
A study from 1995 in the American Economic Review showed that car dealerships charge women and blacks higher prices for the same cars even when given identically scripted bargaining strategies. Thatís systemic disadvantage. Itís not anybodyís fault, but denying it exists is a disservice to reality as well as humanity.
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Old 09-22-2020, 08:40 PM   #261
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There are countless examples and studies illustrating these and the impact is real. Yet you still haven't given a legit one for systemic racism.
.
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Old 09-22-2020, 08:45 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by OldRiverRat View Post
Ask yourself and I wouldn't expect anyone to reply much less be honest, but what would your immediate reaction be if a black guy wanted to join your lease, knocked on your door after dark, etc. Or if you started a new job and met a couple of black people along with a bunch of white guys. Would everyone start on equal footing in terms of what you had to see before concluding they were definitely good guys?



This is beyond I insulting, nothing like someoneís litmus test for racism. If you truly believe this is how most people think then you have some major issues.
Iíll answer your questions
Black guy on my lease? Uhhh wouldnít even think twice, if I did Iím sure my BLACK brother in law might not appreciate it very much.
Black person knocks on my door at night - would handle it no different than any other time it has happened, I would equally use caution just as if it were a person of any other color.
Started a new job and there were black guys there, I wouldnít think twice whether they were ďgood guysĒ whatever that means.

Are these The thoughts that go through your head when you see black people? Seems like you may have the problem




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His arguments are a watered down version of ďcritical race theoryĒ and are based on the assumption that white people (or any non person of color) are inherently racist, as are any systems or societies they have helped creat. As such, these evil white people must be taught to hate their inherently racist selves and feel guilty for the injustices they subconsciously (and their ancestors literally) forced upon persons of color.

The idea is a racists way of fighting racism... not saying he is, but that the people who originated the ideologies are. Big difference. This is how we are starting to see segregation in the name of ďsocial justiceĒ... how California is stripping away civil rights laws in the name of justice... how prejudicial policies are being touted as solutions to systemic racism... it is back asswords thinking


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Old 09-22-2020, 09:08 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
On affirmative action we agree 100%. Iíve never wanted to check boxes that might be used to qualify me for something I didnít earn based on the fact that my father is an immigrant. Ideas like reparations and affirmative action are progressive constructs that I think do more damage than good.
Iíve been a Big Brother and I can tell you that kid had nothing like the opportunities I had. Sometimes I wondered how he could keep getting up in the morning and slugging it outó the odds are so stacked against him. Itís not his fault either. Maybe you could blame it on his father or mother or uncles or community or whatever, but you canít blame it on him. I donít think life is fair or that it necessarily needs to be but equality of opportunity is not a reality I see.
Redlining absolutely existed and is well documented. You can hand pick a couple of simplified examples in an attempt to substantiate your misplaced idea, but the fact is that thereís plenty of data that shows discriminatory practices based on race and geographic location, even when controlled for other risk factors. It still happens.
A study from 1995 in the American Economic Review showed that car dealerships charge women and blacks higher prices for the same cars even when given identically scripted bargaining strategies. Thatís systemic disadvantage. Itís not anybodyís fault, but denying it exists is a disservice to reality as well as humanity.


What? You are quoting something from 25 years ago to support an argument for present day and it doesnít even support your position of anything racially systematic. If two people walk into a dealership and haggle for the same car both have the opportunity to walk out and not buy the car. Could it be that the salesman knows his audience and that quite possibly blacks and women generally donít hold the line when bargaining as often as other races or genders? One would have to assume that the salesperson was unknowingly a part of this study so if that salesman knows, on average, that a white male or asian male, for example, will walk away from a negotiation much quicker than a Black person or female then it would stand to reason that they would be less inclined to try and haggle beyond a certain point in order to not lose the deal.
Itís not a good or telling study because car prices are negotiable even if it was scripted. If you told me a black person or woman was being charged more for a fixed price item then I would take note but this is weak study.

I trade every day as a broker and I know my customers and market and I know when I can push for another $1 and when I canít, this doesnít make me racist it makes me good at my job.


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Old 09-22-2020, 09:39 PM   #264
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So Awards shows are not part of an Actor's work? How about press junkets?

NFL does support LEO ... They've also supported the Military in a HUGE way with the Salute to Service gear.

100 percent
The NFL donates 100 percent of proceeds from the sale of Salute to Service merchandise at retail and on NFL Auction to its military non-profit partners. The NFL does not profit from the sale or auction of Salute to Service merchandise.
a person or an organization shouldn't play both sides of the field.

make a stand. tell 'em to F.O or run with them.
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:34 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by OldRiverRat View Post
Ask yourself and I wouldn't expect anyone to reply much less be honest, but what would your immediate reaction be if a black guy wanted to join your lease, knocked on your door after dark, etc. Or if you started a new job and met a couple of black people along with a bunch of white guys. Would everyone start on equal footing in terms of what you had to see before concluding they were definitely good guys?



This is beyond I insulting, nothing like someoneís litmus test for racism. If you truly believe this is how most people think then you have some major issues.
Iíll answer your questions
Black guy on my lease? Uhhh wouldnít even think twice, if I did Iím sure my BLACK brother in law might not appreciate it very much.
Black person knocks on my door at night - would handle it no different than any other time it has happened, I would equally use caution just as if it were a person of any other color.
Started a new job and there were black guys there, I wouldnít think twice whether they were ďgood guysĒ whatever that means.

Are these The thoughts that go through your head when you see black people? Seems like you may have the problem

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People judge everyone when it affects them. When looking for another lease member you try to figure out certain things, like will they have money to pay on time, do they love to listen to loud music 24/7, are they druggies.. It doesn't matter what race they are.

But if they are black you're being racist.

I went out to eat once for Mexican food. Waiter never came to my table so my friend and I eventually left. Guess they didn't like my friend. But he was white so ?? But if he was black and this happened to someone else they scream racism.

It's all in how people see things. Crap happens to all of us all the time.. Get over it.
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Old 09-23-2020, 12:40 PM   #266
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I thought this was a football thread. Bummer just more **** politics.
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Old 09-23-2020, 01:16 PM   #267
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...but yet, you had to post a smart *** remark instead of just hitting the back button...
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Old 09-23-2020, 02:01 PM   #268
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Well I guess people cannot have an honest opinion anymore.

Beware the Internet police are in full force......
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Old 09-23-2020, 04:53 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by OldRiverRat View Post
What? You are quoting something from 25 years ago to support an argument for present day and it doesnít even support your position of anything racially systematic. If two people walk into a dealership and haggle for the same car both have the opportunity to walk out and not buy the car. Could it be that the salesman knows his audience and that quite possibly blacks and women generally donít hold the line when bargaining as often as other races or genders? One would have to assume that the salesperson was unknowingly a part of this study so if that salesman knows, on average, that a white male or asian male, for example, will walk away from a negotiation much quicker than a Black person or female then it would stand to reason that they would be less inclined to try and haggle beyond a certain point in order to not lose the deal.
Itís not a good or telling study because car prices are negotiable even if it was scripted. If you told me a black person or woman was being charged more for a fixed price item then I would take note but this is weak study.

I trade every day as a broker and I know my customers and market and I know when I can push for another $1 and when I canít, this doesnít make me racist it makes me good at my job.


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Oh you actually read the study? Iím pleasantly surprised.
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Old 09-23-2020, 05:42 PM   #270
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If you told me a black person or woman was being charged more for a fixed price item then I would take note but this is weak study.
lol riiiight. You mean if there was a "black" price or a "women's" price and a "white" price then you would believe it. Congress outlawed that a long time ago, so you likely won't find explicitly different "fixed" pricing example for different races.
Did you think through that idea or did it just fall out when you started typing?
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Old 09-23-2020, 07:16 PM   #271
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Don't do that. I got stuck watching Earl highlights for 10 minutes
or this

Before football turned to crap.

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Old 09-24-2020, 01:23 AM   #272
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Gotta love how folks pivot to their political talking points and counterpoints to try to prove something that clearly does exist doesn't. Call it what you will - racism, systemic racism, implicit bias or whatever - it does exist and the impact is real, albeit difficult to measure.

One of my closest friends is a strong Christian, hardcore conservative Republican and we've had an ongoing debate on race since this NFL stuff started. No matter what, he could not take his politics out of the equation. He could acknowledge racism was an issue but always fell back into the politics. Angry at anything suggesting he or we (Republicans) were inherently racist and associating anyone speaking up to racism as part of the left wing crazies.

One day we're talking and he shares that his daughter is dating a young black kid and what great kid he is, his parents are, etc. He then shared how hard it was to get there - in terms of accepting and believing he was a great kid as opposed to had it been a white kid. He admitted he was having a hard time understanding as he was / is absolutely certain he is not racist. I had to laugh because I had been through something similar.

It is called implicit bias - it is real and it is widespread. It isn't malicious or intentional but it explains many examples of "call it something other than systemic" racism.

Resumes with identical qualifications of people with ethnic sounding names receiving 50% fewer call backs than resumes with more common names. Homes owned by black families appraising at consistently lower $/Sq foot compared to white homes in same neighborhoods. Behavior reported as suspicious of blacks totally ignored of whites. Police more likely to draw guns or use deadly force. There are countless examples and studies illustrating these and the impact is real.

Ask yourself and I wouldn't expect anyone to reply much less be honest, but what would your immediate reaction be if a black guy wanted to join your lease, knocked on your door after dark, etc. Or if you started a new job and met a couple of black people along with a bunch of white guys. Would everyone start on equal footing in terms of what you had to see before concluding they were definitely good guys?

If you can honestly say you would absolutely see and judge them equally and instantly without bias, then more power to you. Because I will admit I still fall into that trap sometime as I did initially when these NFL protests started.
Be careful youíll get flamed for a logical post like this one. Acknowledge it, accept it, show empathy, and move on.
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Old 09-24-2020, 07:38 AM   #273
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Be careful youíll get flamed for a logical post like this one. Acknowledge it, accept it, show empathy, and move on.

You get flamed and attacked personally for anything that doesnít align with the Breitbart narrative.
This is (mostly) not a place where real dialogue is possible. It's sad that that is disappearing across the board in this country.
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Old 09-24-2020, 07:40 AM   #274
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I saw an article today that women in the Trump White House are paid $0.69 on the dollar compared to men. Of course there is no gender pay gap because that was solved in the past and the data is bad, study is weak, or Iím lying.
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Old 09-24-2020, 07:47 AM   #275
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I saw an article today that women in the Trump White House are paid $0.69 on the dollar compared to men. Of course there is no gender pay gap because that was solved in the past and the data is bad, study is weak, or Iím lying.
so you saw an article huh... smh
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:03 AM   #276
unclefish
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I saw an article today that women in the Trump White House are paid $0.69 on the dollar compared to men. Of course there is no gender pay gap because that was solved in the past and the data is bad, study is weak, or Iím lying.
That "study" doesn't tell you that they don't analyze jobs that are similar and that they are paid the same amount per federal guidelines....no matter the gender. All that study means is that Trump has more women in entry level positions. Its really not that hard to comprehend.....except for a liberal.

Another thing is why would a person on a bow hunting website give two rat's behinds whether men and women in the Whitehouse are paid the same. There are no words to describe this level of Karen.
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:07 AM   #277
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That "study" doesn't tell you that they don't analyze jobs that are similar and that they are paid the same amount per federal guidelines....no matter the gender. All that study means is that Trump has more women in entry level positions. Its really not that hard to comprehend.....except for a liberal.



Another thing is why would a person on a bow hunting website give two rat's behinds whether men and women in the Whitehouse are paid the same. There are no words to describe this level of Karen.


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so you saw an article huh... smh

Case in point!
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:11 AM   #278
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Another thing is why would a person on a bow hunting website give two rat's behinds whether men and women in the Whitehouse are paid the same. There are no words to describe this level of Karen.
Because I have a brain and a moral compass. How does that have anything to do with being a bow hunter? How many people in this thread even bow hunt?
The same label could be painted in this entire thread.
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Old 09-24-2020, 12:10 PM   #279
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Go cowboys.
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Old 09-24-2020, 12:27 PM   #280
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That steel curtain was awesome! I am glad I was able to witness the glory days of football.
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