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Old 07-23-2022, 08:20 PM   #1
ETX-Deerslayer
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Default Bolt Carrier Issue

I’m not sure what to title this thread and I’m sure I won’t be able to explain it well enough, but I’ll give it a shot.

My son was shooting his AR suppressed today. First time with a suppressor on this AR. He shot 3 mags and the failure happened with round #90 of the day….. yes final round in the last mag. Last 15 or so rounds were in fairly quick succession.

This is a BCM 14.5 complete upper that he has had two years. Probably have ran 3,000-4,000 rounds through this set up. Built on an eagle arms lower. He was running a mini 2 surefire suppressor and factory 55gr ball ammo. Winchester.

When he fired that last round the pressure blew out the bottom of his magazine see pic below. Bolt carrier is not movable at all. It looks like the jaws of the extractor / boltface has cracked the lugs where it meets the barrel. I tried to take a pic but can’t really see it. Anyway….. we are not sure what caused this ‘over pressure’ and are curious if it was an ammo issue, suppressor pressure issue or what could have caused this? (All rounds prior to this last one were fine…. No barrel obstruction etc)


I’m sure this is probably not enough info and I have not explained it very well.

Regardless…. Upper is toast and we will figure out a plan b.






He took some powder burns to the arm but is otherwise fine.

Thoughts?


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Old 07-23-2022, 08:38 PM   #2
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I do normally go up to an H2 buffer spring with a suppressor. Something to slow down the reciprocating of the BCG. Not sure the increased force of the bcg reciprocating did it. Does seem like it wasn’t fully locked in when it fired. I’ve never had such an issue, sorry I’m not any help specifically.


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Old 07-23-2022, 08:42 PM   #3
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What suppressor?


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Old 07-23-2022, 08:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
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What suppressor?


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Surefire mini 2


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Old 07-23-2022, 08:51 PM   #5
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It sounds like too much pressure built up when shooting those last few rounds at a higher rate along with the pressure possibly forcing the bolt back. As far as the bolt being stuck it could be that the bolt slid fwd too fast along with the heat of the blow back and maybe lodging it in the chamber. The upper sounds like it's toast especially if you can't pull it back. I would try to knock it back with a cleaning rod down the barrel.
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Old 07-23-2022, 08:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedVeteran0305 View Post
It sounds like too much pressure built up when shooting those last few rounds at a higher rate along with the pressure possibly forcing the bolt back. As far as the bolt being stuck it could be that the bolt slid fwd too fast along with the heat of the blow back and maybe lodging it in the chamber. The upper sounds like it's toast especially if you can't pull it back. I would try to knock it back with a cleaning rod down the barrel.

We have hammered on it with all we got. Lol.

So, what would be the solution to the above issue? If this is what happened?

Thanks


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Old 07-23-2022, 09:01 PM   #7
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Put it on a wooden plaque and hang it on the wall


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Old 07-23-2022, 09:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETX-Deerslayer View Post
We have hammered on it with all we got. Lol.

So, what would be the solution to the above issue? If this is what happened?

Thanks


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I would say it's toast. Sounds like the heat may have "welded" the bolt shut. Are you able to take the lower off and post a picture from the bottom?
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Old 07-23-2022, 09:13 PM   #9
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Yep we know the upper is trashed. Just trying to avoid the same sort of failure in the future. We got the lower off. Pics below. Hard to really see……





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Old 07-23-2022, 09:37 PM   #10
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I’m going to bet an overpressure round. Winchester white box was notorious for that in years past.


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Old 07-23-2022, 09:44 PM   #11
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Judging by the burn marks on the bottom of the chamber, there was definitely too much pressure. I would try using a different spring known for use with suppressors next time as mentioned above.
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Old 07-23-2022, 11:40 PM   #12
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That was not caused by increased pressure from a suppressor or having too weak of a buffer spring. Either an overcharged round, or it fired out of battery. Possible to get a lot number on the ammo?

Did it eject the brass? You said y’all are ramming a cleaning rod down he barrel trying to get the bcg to move and no dice. Are you sure you’re hitting the bolt? Your Son doesn’t happen to own a .300 blackout, does he?

Regardless, that could have been really bad. Glad he wasn’t hurt. Great reminder to always wear eye protection

Last edited by Clay C; 07-23-2022 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 07-24-2022, 07:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay C View Post
That was not caused by increased pressure from a suppressor or having too weak of a buffer spring. Either an overcharged round, or it fired out of battery. Possible to get a lot number on the ammo?

Did it eject the brass? You said y’all are ramming a cleaning rod down he barrel trying to get the bcg to move and no dice. Are you sure you’re hitting the bolt? Your Son doesn’t happen to own a .300 blackout, does he?

Regardless, that could have been really bad. Glad he wasn’t hurt. Great reminder to always wear eye protection
This was my first thought as well
Will be checking back to see if cause is ever determined
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Old 07-24-2022, 08:51 AM   #14
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Does not own a .300 blackout. Do not think it ejected the brass.


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Old 07-24-2022, 11:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETX-Deerslayer View Post
Does not own a .300 blackout. Do not think it ejected the brass.


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See if he has the lot number for the ammo. Get it and do some googling to see if anyone else has posted about having an issue with it. This sounds like an ammunition issue. Do you know if it is Lake City XM193, or .223?
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Old 07-24-2022, 11:26 AM   #16
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He is going through his ammo this morning , trying to determine box/lot #. However he has so many mags and has loaded them at different times we are not sure we will be able to determine.


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Old 07-24-2022, 12:49 PM   #17
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Build a fence on the bansaw table and split it down the middle is only thing I know to do

Lucky that pressure went out the bottom of the mag and not the side of the receiver and into his face
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Old 07-24-2022, 01:05 PM   #18
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I’d send an email to BCM. Their are a solid company. It wouldn’t surprise me if they replaced the upper free of charge.

Either way, report back about what they say.
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Old 07-24-2022, 01:17 PM   #19
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We have already sent an email (late yesterday) and are awaiting a response. We sent, pictures a description etc.

I’m leaning toward an ammo issue and don’t really expect BCM to warranty or anything, but thought they might want to look at the upper? So we requested a mailing label etc.

I’ll post up their response.


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Old 07-24-2022, 08:58 PM   #20
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It's 100% a ammo issue. I've seen it before, a few times. Too much powder. Happend to me 1 time.
Hate that he ruined his rifle but, as long as he's ok, then all good.

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Old 07-24-2022, 10:06 PM   #21
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I would take the forearm and the gas tube off, then remove the barrel nut. Then see if you can get the bolt out of the barrel extension. Also remove the nut that holds the buffer tube on and try to spin the buffer tube off.

I would run a cleaning rod down the barrel as far as it will go, then mark it. Then pull it out of the barrel, then put the cleaning rod next to the barrel, with the mark you made, at the end of the barrel, to see how deep the cleaning rod was able to go. That will determine if the barrel is clear. If it goes all the way up into the case, then you know there were no barrel obstructions of any kind. Either the bolt failed, or possibly the bolt failed because of too high of pressures.

Would be interesting to see the rest of this deal.
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Old 07-25-2022, 10:17 PM   #22
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300blk round got in the mag... or wrong powder in the case... like previous post , cleaning rod will tell quickly .. if it's long enough to get to the back of the case , overpressure. if rod gets to front of chamber .. 300 blk
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Old 07-26-2022, 07:53 PM   #23
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Update:

BCM replied to our emails and sent us a label and we are shipping to them to look it over. They have been too notch and very responsive. Highly unlikely that they will warranty anything, but at least they can look it over. We are shipping it out tomorrow 6-27 and I will update this thread with new info once they have looked it over.


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Old 07-26-2022, 08:01 PM   #24
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ammo issue
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Old 07-26-2022, 08:07 PM   #25
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I also tend to think ammo issue, it shouldn’t be able to fire out of battery regardless of the rate of fire or spring in the buffer tube. They are designed to be fired full auto with standard carbine buffers…

Any chance it might have been a reload? The .300 BLK in a 5.56 can definitely cause that, my understanding is it’s hard to put enough rifle powder in a rifle case to generate that much over pressure. Definitely possible in a pistol case or with pistol powder.

Nosler lists .223 55 gr loads (lower pressure than 5.56) at 93% full with H335 powder (most common in bulk/military ammo to my knowledge). I just don’t see an extra 2 gr of powder causing that, especially with the wide variety of actual charges most factory bulk 5.56 ammo must have to generate the groups that it does.

https://www.nosler.com/223-remington

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Old 07-26-2022, 08:45 PM   #26
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I had a 5.56 round split right at the rim and it blew the magazine out of the bottom and opened it up like that to the point the guts fell out of it. I was able to get it opened up finally using a brass rod and a hammer. I checked the remaining rounds and they had little areas that looked like they were ready to split so I disposed of the whole lot. Fortunately for me it did the same -- exploded down into the mag instead of my face.
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Old 08-10-2022, 08:45 PM   #27
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Any updates from BCM?
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Old 08-10-2022, 09:02 PM   #28
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Need to have a 'smith look at it. It might be ruined as others have said, or it might have been a brass case head failure, in which case most of it might be salvageable. The brass rupturing can lock the bolt up. The escaping gas going down and out the magazine well is by design.
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Old 08-13-2022, 02:19 PM   #29
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Any update?
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Old 08-13-2022, 02:59 PM   #30
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Any update?
Im curious as well
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Old 08-14-2022, 01:14 PM   #31
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Sorry for the delay fellas…… with school starting back, I have been very busy.

Anyway, see the response from BCM below. We are very happy with their quick response and explanation as well as pictures they sent.



We confirm we received your upper group and BCG back to our facility and our tech has completed their inspection.
The upper receiver and BCG experienced a high pressure event. We were able to extract the case. When the high pressure event occurred the side wall of the brass failed/ruptured. See pictures attached.
The high pressure event occurred while the BCG was in battery and caused a bend in the extractor which “locked” the bolt in battery and did not allow the carrier to move to the rear.

Inspection of the barrel shows it is dimensionally in spec, however the high pressure event cracked the barrel extension. The bolt is also dimensionally in spec.

After inspection of your complete upper group, the serviceable components include:

KMR Handguard
Gas Block
(we did not inspect the charging handle)


At this point, we recommend in the strongest terms that you quarantine and dispose of this batch of ammunition as there is an increased probability of experiencing another high pressure event which may cause severe injury or death.











On a side note: BCM is rebuilding the upper with new components for parts cost only (no labor) and shipping to us.

So…. It looks like an ammo issue. Unfortunately, we are not 100% sure which ‘batch’ of ammo this round came from. We are looking through all of our ammo and loaded mags, trying to determine.


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Old 08-14-2022, 03:21 PM   #32
Mike D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETX-Deerslayer View Post
Sorry for the delay fellas…… with school starting back, I have been very busy.

Anyway, see the response from BCM below. We are very happy with their quick response and explanation as well as pictures they sent.



We confirm we received your upper group and BCG back to our facility and our tech has completed their inspection.
The upper receiver and BCG experienced a high pressure event. We were able to extract the case. When the high pressure event occurred the side wall of the brass failed/ruptured. See pictures attached.
The high pressure event occurred while the BCG was in battery and caused a bend in the extractor which “locked” the bolt in battery and did not allow the carrier to move to the rear.

Inspection of the barrel shows it is dimensionally in spec, however the high pressure event cracked the barrel extension. The bolt is also dimensionally in spec.

After inspection of your complete upper group, the serviceable components include:

KMR Handguard
Gas Block
(we did not inspect the charging handle)


At this point, we recommend in the strongest terms that you quarantine and dispose of this batch of ammunition as there is an increased probability of experiencing another high pressure event which may cause severe injury or death.











On a side note: BCM is rebuilding the upper with new components for parts cost only (no labor) and shipping to us.

So…. It looks like an ammo issue. Unfortunately, we are not 100% sure which ‘batch’ of ammo this round came from. We are looking through all of our ammo and loaded mags, trying to determine.


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Glad they were able to determine what the issue was.

Overpressure round as I suspected.


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Old 08-14-2022, 10:00 PM   #33
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Wow. Wonder how much charge that round had

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