Carter’s Country-New Policy

[da_pepper]

I get it from their point of view, ( or the card issuers ) since these days somehow they would be to blame legally if a gun they sell is used in a crime. But it only shows how stupid everything has gotten. It should be none of their business whose card it is. Or who handed him the cash to buy it. In the end it in reality it is no different than if you had handed him cash to buy it before he left the house. My young adult kids use my cards all the time to get gas in my vehicles, groceries etc.

But then again, I realize Im the minority here, because I dont believe in background checks, form 4473 etc either. People who believe in liberty and the founders view of the Constitution arent too popular around here.

Credit Card frauds would love you lol! I see it almost like Multi Factor Authentication. They are just making sure. Typically in some places, if you have the same last name, its not a big deal. But, I can see why they would want it while selling a firearm.

[Cliff Dog]

Next time give him cash Maybe they still accept that

[S-3 Ranch]

Heck IMO you should have both a USA passport and a legal DL or ID + CC with name on it when purchasing a firearm, aliens should not be allowed to buy a firearm

[Artos]

It is only considered a straw purchase if you are knowingly filling out the 4473 for a person who could not otherwise pass a background check / not legally able to own a firearm...you are still considered the transferee regardless who is paying / buying as a gift etc.

The store is simply mitigating risk due to the current climate.

[tvc184]

It is only considered a straw purchase if you are knowingly filling out the 4473 for a person who could not otherwise pass a background check / not legally able to own a firearm...you are still considered the transferee regardless who is paying / buying as a gift etc.

The store is simply mitigating risk due to the current climate.

I don’t think it matters if the other person can legally own a firearm or not. If the intent is for the other person to be the owner, I believe ATF considers it a crime for somebody else to purchase a weapon for him.

[Artos]

I don’t think it matters if the other person can legally own a firearm or not. If the intent is for the other person to be the owner, I believe ATF considers it a crime for somebody else to purchase a weapon for him.

Negative...there is no crime. ATF is concerned with the traceability & if the gun is in legal hands of a law abiding citizen, then the trace ends / case closed.

Thousands of Guns are purchased as gifts every day...if they go to the transferee & want to see the gun & buyer says I bought it for my brother & confirm, their job is done. No crime was committed.

[tvc184]

Negative...there is no crime. ATF is concerned with the traceability & if the gun is in legal hands of a law abiding citizen, then the trace ends / case closed.

Thousands of Guns are purchased as gifts every day...if they go to the transferee & want to see the gun & buyer says I bought it for my brother & confirm, their job is done. No crime was committed.

A gift is purchased with your own money.

If someone who can legally purchase and possess a firearm gives you money and says, go to Academy and buy me a gun. I am fairly certain that is a felony.

[Artos]

Why would that matter to ATF?? If that was a fact then the OP committed a previous felony allowing a use of CC purchase.

Two brothers go into Carters & one wants to buy a gift for the other, picks it out...one brother is the transferee, passes his check & the other pays. Or if he gave him the money to go in himself, it is still a legal purchase. Where the money came from doesn't matter to ATF if the transferee or end user is legal to own.

Bottom line it is only a straw purchase when the gun is being acquired for the intended purpose of ending up in the hands of someone who cannot legally own a gun.

[tvc184]

Why would that matter to ATF?? If that was a fact then the OP committed a previous felony allowing a use of CC purchase.

Two brothers go into Carters & one wants to buy a gift for the other, picks it out...one brother is the transferee, passes his check & the other pays. Or if he gave him the money to go in himself, it is still a legal purchase. Where the money came from doesn't matter to ATF if the transferee or end user is legal to own.

Bottom line it is only a straw purchase when the gun is being acquired for the intended purpose of ending up in the hands of someone who cannot legally own a gun.

Your asking why ATF cares? I have no clue.

I don’t write their laws. I just don’t agree that a straw purchase only means buying for someone who can’t legally.

[Artos]

According to every inspecting agent I've discussed this with, that is exactly what it means.

Straw = illegal purchase / transfer.

You are welcome to cite federal law if you can find otherwise.

Think about it & say they do a trace on a multiple handgun purchase that came through.

A gift would send them to the transferee & then to person they were gifted to...if the person who owns them is allowed, the trace is over. Legal transfer.

If a person used gift $$$$ to purchase then the trace ends with the transferee. Legal Transfer.

There has to be an illegal transfer for a straw / crime to be committed.

[TxBowHntr]

According to every inspecting agent I've discussed this with, that is exactly what it means.

Straw = illegal purchase / transfer.

You are welcome to cite federal law if you can find otherwise.

Think about it & say they do a trace on a multiple handgun purchase that came through.

A gift would send them to the transferee & then to person they were gifted to...if the person who owns them is allowed, the trace is over. Legal transfer.

If a person used gift $$$$ to purchase then the trace ends with the transferee. Legal Transfer.

There has to be an illegal transfer for a straw / crime to be committed.

Technically, giving someone $$$ to buy a gun for yourself, even if you are legally able to own a firearm, is illegal.

The qualifying questions that are asked help determine whether the sale is legal, and the first question asks (copied from an actual 4473 form):

Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form and any continuation sheet(s) (ATF Form 5300.9A)?
Warning: You are not the actual transferee/buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are
not the actual transferee/buyer, the licensee cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you. Exception: If you are only picking up a repaired
firearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer 21.a. and may proceed to question 21.b.

Notice that the form does not ask whether or not the intended person is legally allowed to own a firearm or not. It is Black and White in it's wording. Now, whether it happens and how often is another story, but technically, it is illegal.

[Artos]

Technically, giving someone $$$ to buy a gun for yourself, even if you are legally able to own a firearm, is illegal.

Are you saying in this example you give me $$$ so I can go do the 4473 for you because you are to lazy??

[tvc184]

Technically, giving someone $$$ to buy a gun for yourself, even if you are legally able to own a firearm, is illegal.

The qualifying questions that are asked help determine whether the sale is legal, and the first question asks (copied from an actual 4473 form):

Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form and any continuation sheet(s) (ATF Form 5300.9A)?
Warning: You are not the actual transferee/buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are
not the actual transferee/buyer, the licensee cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you. Exception: If you are only picking up a repaired
firearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer 21.a. and may proceed to question 21.b.

Notice that the form does not ask whether or not the intended person is legally allowed to own a firearm or not. It is Black and White in it's wording. Now, whether it happens and how often is another story, but technically, it is illegal.

Correct.

While working on gun crimes and for a short times running our local Project Safe Neighborhoods…… https://www.justice.gov/psn …. I have spoken with ATF agents and it was a simple answer, unless were gifting the firearm to another person, it is a straw purchase to buy for another person. The other person’s criminal status doesn’t matter.

[Artos]

Sigh...

[Shane77624]

I’m so tired of “companies” looking out for my well being. I agree with the OP…I’m just from a different time.