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Old 11-25-2021, 01:48 AM   #1
ctom87
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Default Leaving gun in car would have been safer...

I had a crazy experience today while at Bass Pro Shops in Grapevine. My buddy (the one I bought the gun for) and I show up at 8:15 am to buy him a set of rings and mount the scope I gave him. When I got out of the truck I didn't know how long we might be inside, so better safe than sorry (so I thought), I took my 10/22 with me inside. It's a takedown model and was folded up.

We walk in and there is one guy working the gun counter, we're next in line. The worker is helping these two hispanic folks that don't speak too much English. They are shopping for scopes. We must have waited about 30 minutes before a second worker finally shows up to help us out. He shows us to the rings, gives us a recommendation, and takes us to the gunsmithing room to mount the rings and scope. Meanwhile, the two fellas looking at scopes continued to do so.

Fast forward about 5 minutes or so... the gunsmith is installing the rings on my buddy's 10/22. This is when the two folks looking at scopes come in - they finally decided on a scope and have now made their way into the same room that we were in and are next to have the gunsmith work on their rifle.

What happens next I was not prepared for. I still can't believe this actually happened. I replayed this multiple times in my head and I have my own criticism of how I handled the situation. If you stick with the longwinded story, I also have questions on legal implications and what you would do had you been carrying (which I was not.)

The best way to explain the sequence of events that happened is probably by using the below map and using the numbers to describe the actions taken by the person who bought the scope and was having it mounted. He was with his brother, wife and 2 kids.

1: Ok so the scenario has been set. There are 5 people in the room as seen below. No one moved except for the hombre who is assigned numbers on the map. Everything at this point is normal - he purchased a scope, already paid, and is having it mounted. His brother is closest to the door and is looking at something in the glass. The gunsmith is working on my buddy's rifle. As we are waiting, my rifle - which I took into the store to ensure my truck wouldn't be broken into in the parking lot - is sitting on top of the glass counter and is within arm's reach of me. It could also be described as "in possession" by my buddy as he is the closest to my rifle at this point.

2: Very quickly without any sound the guy has moved next to my friend, and in a split second picked up my gun as I watched out of the corner of my eye. I turn my head and I watch him take possession of my rifle. *I did not say anything at this point. The time where the guy was in position two was very short. Less than two seconds. He walked up, grabbed the gun, and went to position 3 very quickly.

3: Within a split second he has backed up to position three and starts looking through the scope. (It is in it's takedown/folded position.) The best way to say it is my brain immediately cleared and I watched intently to see what the f--- he was going to do. I examined everything he did, trying to figure out why this happened and his motive while at the same time figuring out action plans for the different types of reasons he took the gun. Two or three times he took the scope back up to his eye and looked through it. At this point, I determined one of two things is happening... 1) If you're trying to steal my rifle, you've got to see that I am staring you down, or 2) I'm anticipating a question because it's a bit unique looking in the takedown position, the carbon fiber barrel, the magpul stock... Eye-catching may be used to someone who isn't around firearms. I surmise that he most likely was intrigued by the gun. I felt given how clearly obvious he took it, and how I was watching him every move, and if you're taking something you would see that the person in front of you won't break his attention, so this seemed to be the least likely of the two scenarios. Still, I have sized him up and if I felt he was going to walk off, I felt I was getting ready to go into a chaotic frenzy and whoop his A--. He was bigger than me but less athletic and I would have gone absolutely berserk.

I continue to anticipate a question being asked, or "nice rifle" and setting it back down, to which I would say thanks, think poorly of him but go on about life and having a story to tell about the guy who just has no regard for people's property. Perhaps 6-8 seconds has gone by in total now.

4: Already thinking this is a weird situation, I am continuing to fixate all attention on this guy. My friend said something to me but I don't recall what. I just focused on this guy as he turns and whistles VERY LOUDLY - the type I remember as a kid when my dad was calling me home - as he starts walking towards the exit of the gunsmithing room. At this point, I speak up and say, "HEY - What are you doing?" "Oh, this is yours?" "Yeah..." "Sorry, sorry."

5: Now caught, instead of walking towards the door, he immediately diverts his intended course and walks to his brother, making about a 45* shift and says, "Sorry, I wanted to show my brother the scope." Now the Gunsmith says, "That was yours?" "Yeah," I confirmed... He gets onto them about safety and never touching anyone else's rifle - ever. He then starts walking back towards me and sets my rifle back down, say's he sorry 4-5 more times, and says he wanted to show it to his wife. She was about 25 or so yards away. This explains the whistle, but he said he wanted to show his brother. If that were true, you don't just walk off and whistle immediately.

So that's what happened. In the end, everything ended up ok. At the time though I thought he was trying to steal my gun or was a complete dumba--. As I continued replaying the situation in my head, I have landed on he thought the gun was out on the counter, perhaps someone left it, and I think he saw an opportunity to try to walk out with it. I think he was whistling at his wife to put it in their shopping cart. I am not sure someone could be that dumb and not have malicious intent.

Here's where I am a dumba--... 1) the rifle shouldn't have left my hands. Period. I felt comfortable for the 5 minutes it was me, my buddy and the gun smith and let my guard down. I should have picked it back up. And 2) Given the situation, I saw him pick it up and I didn't say anything. No one should ever touch my rifle without my permission, period.

As we ate lunch and hashed out the events later that day, I thought about what would have changed had I been carrying? To be honest, I think I am glad I was not. That would have added so much more stress and different options - whether right or perhaps ovbiously wrong - and it would have further clouded my judgement.

I don't think there is reason to draw in this situation. Someone else picked up my gun and walked off with it and I don't know his intent. Is this something from a legal standpoint where someone in my situation could have drawn? It never crossed my mind until lunch that the gun had a lock on it, mandatory when I entered BPS. He picked up a gun, and I don't know his intentions, and I don't know if he has any ammo... This is a weird situation that I'm interested in hearing what you guys think when it comes to how carrying changes anything. It would have added more to think about and I find this as an opportunity to think and learn on this... Thoughts welcome. Thanks!
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Last edited by ctom87; 11-25-2021 at 02:19 AM.
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Old 11-25-2021, 02:05 AM   #2
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That was hard to read.
Donít leave your firearm for any reason.

Seems like you handled it well.
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Old 11-25-2021, 02:12 AM   #3
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I cant imagine being there and thinking he was doing anything different than exactly what he said he was doing. I kept reading waiting for him to load the gun, or work the action, or point it at someone, or anything other than look through the glass. Seems like he went to a gun store to look at scopes, picked up a rifle off the counter and looked through the scope, when asked to put it down, he apologized as he did so. Am I missing part of the story?

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Old 11-25-2021, 02:22 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LivinADream View Post
I cant imagine being there and thinking he was doing anything different than exactly what he said he was doing. I kept reading waiting for him to load the gun, or work the action, or point it at someone, or anything other than look through the glass. Seems like he went to a gun store to look at scopes, picked up a rifle off the counter and looked through the scope, when asked to put it down, he apologized as he did so. Am I missing part of the story?

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I updated the image. The gun counter is in a different area completely, he had already purchased everything. My gun was the only other gun in the gunsmith room and it was within arms reach of two different people outside the glass. Every other gun they have for sale is locked up, why would there be a random gun laying around outside of any glass and why pick it up and walk off with it when it's next to two people?

Perhaps I am way over thinking this, but I just don't see anyone picking up a random gun that's next to someone and walking off with it.
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Old 11-25-2021, 02:27 AM   #5
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Sounds like a **** show.
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Old 11-25-2021, 04:51 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LivinADream View Post
I cant imagine being there and thinking he was doing anything different than exactly what he said he was doing. I kept reading waiting for him to load the gun, or work the action, or point it at someone, or anything other than look through the glass. Seems like he went to a gun store to look at scopes, picked up a rifle off the counter and looked through the scope, when asked to put it down, he apologized as he did so. Am I missing part of the story?

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My thoughts as well.
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Old 11-25-2021, 04:57 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LivinADream View Post
I cant imagine being there and thinking he was doing anything different than exactly what he said he was doing. I kept reading waiting for him to load the gun, or work the action, or point it at someone, or anything other than look through the glass. Seems like he went to a gun store to look at scopes, picked up a rifle off the counter and looked through the scope, when asked to put it down, he apologized as he did so. Am I missing part of the story?

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What you said
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Old 11-25-2021, 05:33 AM   #8
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Does it fold? I thought they came apart.
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Old 11-25-2021, 06:09 AM   #9
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[QUOTE=ctom87;



Here's where I am a dumba--... 1) the rifle shouldn't have left my hands. Period. I felt comfortable for the 5 minutes it was me, my buddy and the gun smith and let my guard down. I should have picked it back up. And 2) Given the situation, I saw him pick it up and I didn't say anything. No one should ever touch my rifle without my permission, period.

[/QUOTE]

I think you realize it, but Sounds like you put yourself in this situation with some very poor decisions on your part. He sounds like a guy that may not have been very familiar with guns and whatnot and was simply looking at a gun that was left on a counter. In a public location.
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Old 11-25-2021, 06:37 AM   #10
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I dont understand why you didnt intervene as soon as he touched your rifle. Why stand there watching and not speak up sooner?
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Old 11-25-2021, 06:47 AM   #11
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I think the guy wrongly assumed it was a gun for sale and was simply looking at it.

I also think you froze in that situation. You should have instantly said something and took back possession of your gun before he had a chance to do anything with it.
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Old 11-25-2021, 06:55 AM   #12
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Does BP keep scopes mounted to stocks as other stores do? A guy thatís not familiar with a gun counter or just a dumb *** could easily pick one up laying on the counter to look at.
I have no idea of the law but I would have assumed you were insane if you drew a weapon in that situation. A simple -hey bud thatís mine- would have eliminated the situation and the story above.
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Old 11-25-2021, 07:13 AM   #13
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don't know how that quote got there.
^^^^this^^^^^

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Old 11-25-2021, 07:29 AM   #14
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Huh?
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Old 11-25-2021, 07:30 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LivinADream View Post
I cant imagine being there and thinking he was doing anything different than exactly what he said he was doing. I kept reading waiting for him to load the gun, or work the action, or point it at someone, or anything other than look through the glass. Seems like he went to a gun store to look at scopes, picked up a rifle off the counter and looked through the scope, when asked to put it down, he apologized as he did so. Am I missing part of the story?

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My thoughts ^^^


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Old 11-25-2021, 07:31 AM   #16
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Glad it worked out. My friends son got shot in that store in the gun department.
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Old 11-25-2021, 07:37 AM   #17
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I think you are over reacting. Good reason to have not been concealed carry at the time. If you had been carrying, would you have upholstered ???
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Old 11-25-2021, 07:45 AM   #18
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Glad it worked out. My friends son got shot in that store in the gun department.

Story?
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Old 11-25-2021, 07:45 AM   #19
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If you’re going to do something stupid it is best if you just don’t tell anyone.
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Old 11-25-2021, 07:48 AM   #20
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You should have stopped him the second he touched your rifle. Never let someone take control of your gun. Too many flakes out there. What would you have done if he said it was his ???
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Old 11-25-2021, 07:51 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LivinADream View Post
I cant imagine being there and thinking he was doing anything different than exactly what he said he was doing. I kept reading waiting for him to load the gun, or work the action, or point it at someone, or anything other than look through the glass. Seems like he went to a gun store to look at scopes, picked up a rifle off the counter and looked through the scope, when asked to put it down, he apologized as he did so. Am I missing part of the story?

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this is what I quoted or at least meant to.
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Old 11-25-2021, 07:51 AM   #22
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Story?
Noooo

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Old 11-25-2021, 07:58 AM   #23
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I dont understand why you didnt intervene as soon as he touched your rifle. Why stand there watching and not speak up sooner?
^^^^ This
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Old 11-25-2021, 07:59 AM   #24
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That was hard to read.
.
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Old 11-25-2021, 08:07 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntlerCollector View Post
I think the guy wrongly assumed it was a gun for sale and was simply looking at it.

I also think you froze in that situation. You should have instantly said something and took back possession of your gun before he had a chance to do anything with it.
This is my take as well. That, and he was checking out the scope, seeing that is what he had been there to look at all along.
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Old 11-25-2021, 08:10 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buck_wild View Post
I think you are over reacting. Good reason to have not been concealed carry at the time. If you had been carrying, would you have upholstered ???
Same here. Not sure where the eminent deadly threat was and the inability to deescalate.
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Old 11-25-2021, 08:22 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchell8 View Post
If youíre going to do something stupid it is best if you just donít tell anyone or post it
Yep.

Glad the OP didn't have a pistol. I can't imagine drawing on a guy who picked up an unknown gun (to him) that the OP knows is locked and unloaded

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Old 11-25-2021, 08:22 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntlerCollector View Post
I think the guy wrongly assumed it was a gun for sale and was simply looking at it.

I also think you froze in that situation. You should have instantly said something and took back possession of your gun before he had a chance to do anything with it.
^^This^^
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Old 11-25-2021, 08:33 AM   #29
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I just kicked myself in my own cods for reading this.
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Old 11-25-2021, 08:33 AM   #30
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If the guy wanted to steal it I doubt if he would have whistled to draw attention to what he was doing. Glad you weren't carrying.
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Old 11-25-2021, 08:50 AM   #31
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That read like a joke with no punchline...
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Old 11-25-2021, 08:53 AM   #32
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Not that difficult besides don’t set anything down you dont want someone else to pickup. You have to realize the different cultural differences as well. He may have just been in awe of the rifle and was unknown that it was yours at the time. But nonetheless, wanted to show how cool it was and seen them in movies. Hindsight is always 20-20, and can replay and rethink it as much as you want. Bottom line, you learned something going forward.
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Old 11-25-2021, 09:01 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quackerbox View Post
Yep.

Glad the OP didn't have a pistol. I can't imagine drawing on a guy who picked up an unknown gun (to him) that the OP knows is locked and unloaded

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And, Ifín I read it correctly, the barrel was detached from receiver.


SMDH.
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Old 11-25-2021, 09:05 AM   #34
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I would have said hey thatís my rifle as soon as he touched it. I see absolutely no reason to draw your gun ( if you had one) in the situation you described. You nor any body elseís life was in danger. Unless of course you left your gun loaded, but then that would have been on you also. And not a reason to draw a weapon. Weather he was going to steal it or not, is no reason to draw your weapon either.
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Old 11-25-2021, 09:05 AM   #35
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You should have confronted him as soon as he touched it and told him it’s yours.
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Old 11-25-2021, 09:07 AM   #36
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Sounds to me like he thought it was the store's gun and picked it up because he thought it was cool and wanted to show it to his wife and brother.

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Old 11-25-2021, 09:07 AM   #37
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Man... To be honest I started out reading this whole post but ended up skipping through most of it. But to summarize your saying the other guy is at fault for picking up a gun off the counter at a gun store?
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Old 11-25-2021, 09:14 AM   #38
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Definitely don’t think he was trying to steal your gun.
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Old 11-25-2021, 09:16 AM   #39
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Good morning folks and happy Thanksgiving!

I appreciate everyone's comments. I can see I certainly I have way over analyzed this after it happened. Seeing yalls perspective, I need to chill out.

I am sorry this did not read well. I just haven't had a situation like this happen before and tried to express all the events as the occurred in great detail.

Lastly, I understand as a LTC holder I have tremendous responsibility and it would be an insanely poor decision to even consider anything. I am going to review ways to train for situations like this so that I am better prepared to think through things rationally in small amounts of time.

Finally, I am going to not work on puckering up. As AC said - I froze. Not good. Bad look on my end.

Thank you all for the different perspectives.
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Old 11-25-2021, 09:24 AM   #40
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Quote:
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I dont understand why you didnt intervene as soon as he touched your rifle. Why stand there watching and not speak up sooner?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Old 11-25-2021, 09:29 AM   #41
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You sure put a lot of work into that.
As others have noted, I would have stopped him immediately when he touched my rifle. It’s quite possible the man was just a rude individual and meant no harm.
There was no immediate threat to you or anyone else so drawing your weapon, if you’d have had it on you, would have been totally inappropriate and quite possibly have gotten you in trouble or even hurt.
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Old 11-25-2021, 09:35 AM   #42
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Now that that's over, let's discuss your takedown "folding". I have one, it comes apart. Is there a kit or something to make it fold? Serious question. Btw I love mine.

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Old 11-25-2021, 09:38 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LivinADream View Post
I cant imagine being there and thinking he was doing anything different than exactly what he said he was doing. I kept reading waiting for him to load the gun, or work the action, or point it at someone, or anything other than look through the glass. Seems like he went to a gun store to look at scopes, picked up a rifle off the counter and looked through the scope, when asked to put it down, he apologized as he did so. Am I missing part of the story?

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Same here. Gun on the counter of a gun store. He was looking for a gun, probably liked yours.
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Old 11-25-2021, 09:38 AM   #44
Rick
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sounds like he just wanted to look at the scope, did not see where he did anything aggressive...but i did skim when reading it
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Old 11-25-2021, 09:59 AM   #45
ctom87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LivinADream View Post
Now that that's over, let's discuss your takedown "folding". I have one, it comes apart. Is there a kit or something to make it fold? Serious question. Btw I love mine.

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To me I describe it as folded. It comes apart and the barrel attaches to the stock.
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Old 11-25-2021, 10:01 AM   #46
LivinADream
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Originally Posted by ctom87 View Post
To me I describe it as folded. It comes apart and the barrel attaches to the stock.
That's BA. Mine don't do that. Just comes apart.

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Old 11-25-2021, 10:11 AM   #47
RascalArms
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Iím ****** at myself (and the dude that shared this post with me 🤨 You know who you are) for reading this. But now Iím intrigued and want to know the story about the guy that got shot in the store though 🤔
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Old 11-25-2021, 10:16 AM   #48
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Dammit OPÖwhy did you not buy the bags for the takedown like we discussed in another thread? Sure would have saved you a lot of writing.


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Old 11-25-2021, 10:18 AM   #49
hopedale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntlerCollector View Post
I think the guy wrongly assumed it was a gun for sale and was simply looking at it.

I also think you froze in that situation. You should have instantly said something and took back possession of your gun before he had a chance to do anything with it.
Nailed it.

OP, in the end everything worked out. Put this one in life's lessons and give yourself a break.
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Old 11-25-2021, 10:22 AM   #50
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Shoot first ask questions later.
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