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Old 11-28-2022, 07:32 PM   #1
redfishted
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Default High Fence question

I am going to apologize if this dead horse has already be beat, but here is my question.

Say there was 15k acres that was high fenced, the 15k acres was really three 5k acre ranches with different owners, these properties were high fenced collectively but not separated individually by high fence, for the sake of clarity, if you owned the middle property and your fences were high on the two ends but not on the sides, would the deer you shot be considered high fence or low fence deer?
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Old 11-28-2022, 07:34 PM   #2
Snowflake Killa
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Good question, but I would think it would be considered high fence.

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Old 11-28-2022, 07:34 PM   #3
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High
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Old 11-28-2022, 07:59 PM   #4
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High
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Old 11-28-2022, 08:09 PM   #5
piercebronkite
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High as a kite.
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Old 11-28-2022, 08:09 PM   #6
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No low fence. High.


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Old 11-28-2022, 08:12 PM   #7
dgilbert
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High
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Old 11-28-2022, 08:22 PM   #8
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Sounds like what ole Swartz did with tecomante ranch years back. Think they shared a fence line that was low fence in the middle. Rest was high fenced.
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Old 11-28-2022, 08:26 PM   #9
justletmein
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If you bought the place in the middle you may not even know the others had high fences, so I say low because you bought a place with two sides low fenced.
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Old 11-28-2022, 08:30 PM   #10
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If you have no say over what the neighbor shoots, and the deer you pass gets killed...seems like low fence to me. Alot of places in the hill country and south texas may not be high fenced, but once you drive around alittle you realize that you are because of a neighbors high fence
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Old 11-28-2022, 09:05 PM   #11
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If it was 20,000 acres completely surrounded by high fence, would it be high fence?

Now draw lines all over the same property. Does it become low fence? That is essentially what low fences are inside of outer perimeter high fence. They are just arbitrary lines that the deer don’t care about. They still are trapped.
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Old 11-28-2022, 09:21 PM   #12
BTLowry
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I would say high fenced
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Old 11-28-2022, 09:33 PM   #13
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This may be a new category never encountered before. May want to reach out to Cazadores about starting a new division for ďlow fence, inside high fence but still low fenceĒ category


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Old 11-28-2022, 09:41 PM   #14
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Wouldn’t you have to drive through a high fence to get to your property.?
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Old 11-28-2022, 09:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W E H View Post
Wouldn’t you have to drive through a high fence to get to your property.?
You might have to do this on a low fenced category ranch, depending where your access point it.

I’ll” take this a little further. For those who high fence not all side of a property to keep the designation ‘low fence’, is the a minimum distance of low fence section to keep designation?
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Old 11-28-2022, 09:55 PM   #16
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I’d have another b&c in the books if that were the case. The west side of my ranch doesn’t have a fence between my neighbor and I. From what I gather the deer we shoot are still considered high fence and not eligible to be entered in b&c.
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Old 11-28-2022, 10:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Iíd have another b&c in the books if that were the case. The west side of my ranch doesnít have a fence between my neighbor and I. From what I gather the deer we shoot are still considered high fence and not eligible to be entered in b&c.
What's b&c? Just trying to keep up.
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Old 11-28-2022, 10:36 PM   #18
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Boone and Crockett
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Old 11-28-2022, 10:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackdirtCowboy View Post
Boone and Crockett
That with a quick Google search got me up to speed on the conversation. Thankyou
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Old 11-28-2022, 10:39 PM   #20
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it's "low fence", and one of the reasons you see some really really big "low fence" deer these days.


there's 1000 acres inside of my lease that's completely high fenced that has about 4-5 different tracts in it. the people that hunt on that 1100 acres don't even know they're high fenced in.
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Old 11-28-2022, 10:45 PM   #21
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My thought is they would all be considered low fence. Each separate, individually owned ranch has at least one mile of LF. Thatís how TPWD defines LF

Just ask the Cactus Jack😂😂

Last edited by webb09; 11-28-2022 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 11-28-2022, 10:45 PM   #22
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The B&c defines fair chase as the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free ranging wild game animal in a manner that does not give the Hunter an improper or unfair advantage over the game animals. In 1983, the Club adopted a policy that made whitetail deer and other species taken in escape-proof enclosures ineligible for its record books. So I would say no to be able to enter in B&c.
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Old 11-28-2022, 11:25 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webb09 View Post
My thought is they would all be considered low fence. Each separate, individually owned ranch has at least one mile of LF. Thatís how TPWD defines LF

Just ask the Cactus Jack

Always figured they had a set up like that, otherwise they might be in some books


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Old 11-28-2022, 11:31 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighwayHunter View Post
Always figured they had a set up like that, otherwise they might be in some books


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One mile of low fence fronting 83, with miles and miles of HF across the highway.
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Old 11-28-2022, 11:41 PM   #25
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Without a doubt HighFenced. Opinions or lack of knowledge have nothing to do with it when it comes to record books or contests. Now if it’s just talk then that’s different. People make up their opinions of what a free range deer is nowadays. To me if a deer cannot escape a place no matter how big it is then it’s a High Fenced enclosure. Also if I understand it correctly when some sides are Highfenced but the others are low/no fenced sides but impassable terrain like swamps or cliffs will not loophole a Highfenced classification for Boone&Crocket.

Last edited by KingsX; 11-28-2022 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 11-29-2022, 12:11 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webb09 View Post
My thought is they would all be considered low fence. Each separate, individually owned ranch has at least one mile of LF. Thatís how TPWD defines LF

Just ask the Cactus Jack😂😂
it's easy enough to know who hunts this marginal low fence, because they preface every single post about their LOW FENCE deer.
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Old 11-29-2022, 11:14 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webb09 View Post
One mile of low fence fronting 83, with miles and miles of HF across the highway.

Takes some real audacity to call those low fence deer lol


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Old 11-29-2022, 11:22 AM   #28
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Old 11-29-2022, 11:25 AM   #29
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It would be the same if you had three sections of land that borders were 1 mile each. This would meet the same rule but would still be a high finished ranch even though it had 1 mile of fence.

Total of 1920 acres
Broken up into three sections would give you 1 mile fence lines. So by the above description, you would have a low fence ranch even though the total pasture would be 1920 acres
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Old 11-29-2022, 11:25 AM   #30
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Y’all can argue all you want but I just talked to Bailey at los Cazadores and she didn’t even have a good answer for that because I have thought about that before myself so this gave me a good reason to call. They are actually going to take a poll with everyone at los Cazadores and call me back.
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Old 11-29-2022, 11:33 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsX View Post
To me if a deer cannot escape a place NO MATTER HOW BIG IT IS then itís a High Fenced enclosure. Also if I understand it correctly when some sides are Highfenced but the others are low/no fenced sides but impassable terrain like swamps or cliffs will not loophole a Highfenced classification for Boone&Crocket.
So what you're saying is, since the continent contains high fence, the North American continent would be excluded from records, as high fence (the oceans being the containment that would not qualify a loophole) according B&C?



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Old 11-29-2022, 11:42 AM   #32
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Iím in the boat that says low fence, only in the event that you do not have permission to hunt the surrounding properties. If you can only hunt your property and it is low fenced around the entire perimeter then the deer are not forced to stay on your part and are free to come and go as they desire.


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Old 11-29-2022, 11:49 AM   #33
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Here's another quirky thought...is the land inside the high fence, high fenced, or is the land outside the high fence, high fenced? If size/amount doesn't matter, then what's outside is also high fenced. The deer outside can't escape to the available land inside. So it goes both ways if your saying size doesn't matter.
(And no wise cracks about "both ways" or "size doesnt matter" from the 3rd graders!) Lol
Just to be clear I'm not an advocate for hunting high fence for myself, but to each his own. I do believe the amount of land fenced at some point becomes moot to being a determining factor in the "ability to escape" argument.

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Old 11-29-2022, 11:53 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canny View Post
Iím in the boat that says low fence, only in the event that you do not have permission to hunt the surrounding properties. If you can only hunt your property and it is low fenced around the entire perimeter then the deer are not forced to stay on your part and are free to come and go as they desire.


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This..
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Old 11-29-2022, 12:20 PM   #35
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I hunted a property that was 5k acres of low fence brush surrounded by nothing but open pastures. The deer would not leave. So it was low fence that hunted like high fence LOL.
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Old 11-29-2022, 09:18 PM   #36
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The OPs question was whether or not it’s considered HF or LF. Not about BC qualification.
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Old 11-29-2022, 09:34 PM   #37
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Itís 100% low fence status.

Otherwise itís all high fence if you keep going out far enough.
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Old 11-29-2022, 09:40 PM   #38
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I’d call that high fence all day long.

For those that think it’s considered low fence, if your neighbor bought and released a couple 250” breeder bucks, and they happened to wander to your portion of land and you wack one of them, you really gonna go around saying you killed some low fence monster?
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Old 11-29-2022, 09:45 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gclyde28 View Post
Iíd call that high fence all day long.

For those that think itís considered low fence, if your neighbor bought and released a couple 250Ē breeder bucks, and they happened to wander to your portion of land and you wack one of them, you really gonna go around saying you killed some low fence monster?
Look at it in reverse, the benefits of having the high fence is you can release 250" breeders and they don't get shot by your neighbors, well that didn't happen in your scenario.
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Old 11-29-2022, 09:48 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolylane6 View Post
So what you're saying is, since the continent contains high fence, the North American continent would be excluded from records, as high fence (the oceans being the containment that would not qualify a loophole) according B&C?



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Thanks for reminding me why these threads are almost always not worth the time.

To the OP I’m sure the term lowfenced can be subjective but not to be confused with freerange. I don’t typically get into debating what’s lowfence if it’s inside of a Highfenced area but for people with technical agendas like to debate it. I can see one of the owners in this question of yours having the belief they’re lowfence. Typically the term lowfence is used for freerange deer vs enclosed deer. To me if a contest that has low and high fenced categories or a record keeping organization are the reason for the classification question then you’d need to follow their rules.
My personal opinion is properties that are together and surrounded by HF makes all owners involved HF enclosure deer hunters.

Last edited by KingsX; 11-29-2022 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 11-29-2022, 10:01 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gclyde28 View Post
Iíd call that high fence all day long.

For those that think itís considered low fence, if your neighbor bought and released a couple 250Ē breeder bucks, and they happened to wander to your portion of land and you wack one of them, you really gonna go around saying you killed some low fence monster?
Said breeder bucks would have tags, tattoos or holes in their ear. Clearly anyone or any contest would know thatís not a legit LF deer. Would I shoot itÖ.absolutely! Would I claim LFÖ no. Would I send said neighbor a nice Christmas giftÖ.all day long.
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Old 11-30-2022, 12:11 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsX View Post
Thanks for reminding me why these threads are almost always not worth the time.

To the OP Iím sure the term lowfenced can be subjective but not to be confused with freerange. I donít typically get into debating whatís lowfence if itís inside of a Highfenced area but for people with technical agendas like to debate it. I can see one of the owners in this question of yours having the belief theyíre lowfence. Typically the term lowfence is used for freerange deer vs enclosed deer. To me if a contest that has low and high fenced categories or a record keeping organization are the reason for the classification question then youíd need to follow their rules.
My personal opinion is properties that are together and surrounded by HF makes all owners involved HF enclosure deer hunters.
I agree with all the above and was really just playing devils advocate and showing how there's no opinion that can't be challenged by another opinion.
But the truth is that the only defined answer is this: if there's a high fence on the property, like it or not, by definition, it is high fenced.
Tell me I'm wrong.

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Old 11-30-2022, 09:47 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justletmein View Post
If you bought the place in the middle you may not even know the others had high fences, so I say low because you bought a place with two sides low fenced.
this was my first thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by canny View Post
Iím in the boat that says low fence, only in the event that you do not have permission to hunt the surrounding properties. If you can only hunt your property and it is low fenced around the entire perimeter then the deer are not forced to stay on your part and are free to come and go as they desire.


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good point here as well.

like someone said, if you go far enough down south you will hit a HF so in theory they are all fenced in.
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Old 11-30-2022, 10:01 AM   #44
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So just buy or lease a 10 acre track right in the middle of a high fence breeding operation. Do not drive and see the HF part for plausible deniability. You could then own a lot of LF records.

How is this even a question?
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Old 11-30-2022, 11:38 AM   #45
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The B&C rule is the animal must be able to "escape" from the area. That the animal can get away and not be stopped by an artificial barrier. So If you wanted to fight for an animal to be entered in the book then its up to how you describe and they interpret the location of the kill.

Growing up a ranch that was 3 sides high fence could still be low fence for B&C. You only needed low fence on one side cause the deer "could escape"
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Old 11-30-2022, 11:45 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat1 View Post
So just buy or lease a 10 acre track right in the middle of a high fence breeding operation. Do not drive and see the HF part for plausible deniability. You could then own a lot of LF records.

How is this even a question?
Here's how its even a question.

You have a landowner that owns 5000 acres, almost 8 sections, not 10 inside a breeding operation.
No connection to any neighbors, dont know what they are shooting or not shooting.
A piece of property that is plus or minus 65% low fenced and balance high fenced.
if you read the entire thread you can see that it is somewhat divided by people that think one way or another, so it would seem that the question is a relevant one and has intelligent folks on both sides.

Hope that helps clear it up for you.
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Old 11-30-2022, 11:57 AM   #47
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It seems that many people argue that if the deer can't escape from you then it is High Fence. In the OPs scenario, the deer CAN escape you by going to the neighbors' property on either side. I think that is why the question is posed. Are you hunting high fence if the deer can escape from the land you are hunting/own?
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Old 11-30-2022, 11:59 AM   #48
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I have seen high fenced ranches with an interior low fence all the way around it, there was a road between the two fences, I guess the low fence was to keep the livestock away from the high fence, I guess if they shoot a deer inside that low fence then it is considered a low fence deer.
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Old 11-30-2022, 12:06 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjhaverkamp View Post
I have seen high fenced ranches with an interior low fence all the way around it, there was a road between the two fences, I guess the low fence was to keep the livestock away from the high fence, I guess if they shoot a deer inside that low fence then it is considered a low fence deer.
lol
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Old 11-30-2022, 12:12 PM   #50
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For sake of this argument, are we considering low fence to be the same as free range?

I guess before this was brought up, I considered them one in the same, but now I could see how you could differentiate the two. I'd still consider the situation being discussed as high fence. I could understand how someone could call it "low fence", but I absolutely wouldn't consider the deer to be "free range".
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