No rifled shotguns allowed at LBJ?

[rolylane6]

Just have them make it archery only, then it will have tons of giant deer like hagerman

Oh and make it a draw hunt...we're onto something now[emoji16]

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[.243 WSSM]

What units? The majority of units from what I’ve hunted and scouted is wooded.


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In general, the units are much more open and much more smaller at lbj vs caddo. I have hunted extensively at both. It would be pretty easy for a rifle bullet to go from one side of the unit to the other as the units are so small and again, yes there are oaks but its not a predominately hardwood area with huge endless hardwood bottoms. The majority of the units are situated on upland sites with more than 50% prairie ecosystem. Typical of cross timbers region. Again, many rifle shots would not be stopped by grass and then continue to neighboring private land. It is what it is. The average joe hunting out there is not really too concerned about his back drop out there and more concerned about brown and down. Dont read more in to it than it is. Common sense. I have hunted lbj for 24 years and have seen the area explode into mini ranchettes all around the public units. Caddo is so heavily wooded that a recent census has shown there are 3 bigfoots per square mile. You can get lost in there

[Texas Grown]

In general, the units are much more open and much more smaller at lbj vs caddo. I have hunted extensively at both. It would be pretty easy for a rifle bullet to go from one side of the unit to the other as the units are so small and again, yes there are oaks but its not a predominately hardwood area with huge endless hardwood bottoms. The majority of the units are situated on upland sites with more than 50% prairie ecosystem. Typical of cross timbers region. Again, many rifle shots would not be stopped by grass and then continue to neighboring private land. It is what it is. The average joe hunting out there is not really too concerned about his back drop out there and more concerned about brown and down. Dont read more in to it than it is. Common sense. I have hunted lbj for 24 years and have seen the area explode into mini ranchettes all around the public units. Caddo is so heavily wooded that a recent census has shown there are 3 bigfoots per square mile. You can get lost in there

Spot on about LBJ. I've been on every unit up there at one time or another. Mostly when I was younger. But I've no experience with Caddo.

The fish are biting, and there's hogs to be kill-t. Gotta go!

[Blood Trail]

In general, the units are much more open and much more smaller at lbj vs caddo. I have hunted extensively at both. It would be pretty easy for a rifle bullet to go from one side of the unit to the other as the units are so small and again, yes there are oaks but its not a predominately hardwood area with huge endless hardwood bottoms. The majority of the units are situated on upland sites with more than 50% prairie ecosystem. Typical of cross timbers region. Again, many rifle shots would not be stopped by grass and then continue to neighboring private land. It is what it is. The average joe hunting out there is not really too concerned about his back drop out there and more concerned about brown and down. Dont read more in to it than it is. Common sense. I have hunted lbj for 24 years and have seen the area explode into mini ranchettes all around the public units. Caddo is so heavily wooded that a recent census has shown there are 3 bigfoots per square mile. You can get lost in there

We’re not talking rifle hunting. We’re talking rifled slugs. Both smooth bore and sabots travel roughly the same distance.

All these slug only states don’t have an issue.

Like I said earlier, if hunters where accidentally shooting people, I’d say it makes sense. But that’s not happening.

Funny, Benbrook Lake has a youth rifle hunt every year. Look at that area.


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[Johnny44]

Do y’all know why formerly shotgun only states started allowing rifles to some degree?

It was all based on a Ballistic study some 15 years ago that showed the ricochet distance of a 12 gauge sabot slug is more than a 30-06.

I am not a fan of all the restrictions but I like to hunt so I have a cadre of different crap to meet these requirements...It sucks !

Crossbow, bow, shotgun (rifled, smoothbore, plugged, scoped, and iron sights), single shot rifle with straight wall, black powder muzzle loader, rifles, larger bore rifles, rimfires.

I hunt in about six different states and its a lot to keep track of just for big game, much less adding federal game birds...Holy Hell !

[Blood Trail]

Do y’all know why formerly shotgun only states started allowing rifles to some degree?

It was all based on a Ballistic study some 15 years ago that showed the ricochet distance of a 12 gauge sabot slug is more than a 30-06.

I am not a fan of all the restrictions but I like to hunt so I have a cadre of different crap to meet these requirements...It sucks !

Crossbow, bow, shotgun (rifled, smoothbore, plugged, scoped, and iron sights), single shot rifle with straight wall, black powder muzzle loader, rifles, larger bore rifles, rimfires.

I hunt in about six different states and its a lot to keep track of just for big game, much less adding federal game birds...Holy Hell !

Partially correct. Some slug only states are allowing straight wall calibers because of the the similar down range ballistics of slugs.

That study you mentioned has been a subjective of debate and debunked by many.

For one, there’s too many variables to accurately determine ricochet distances of any calibers.

Slugs are heavy, not very aerodynamic and lose a lot of energy fast. Most are swaged from pure lead which deform severely when striking something hard.

I find it very hard to believe that a 12 ga slug travels further than a .30 cal designed for 500 yard shots.


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[bossbowman]

It was all based on a Ballistic study some 15 years ago that showed the ricochet distance of a 12 gauge sabot slug is more than a 30-06.

I will say this, they had a shotgun hunt at the state park at whitney ONCE!, one of those slugs richochet and hit maintenance station where they do the orientation right above where one of the park rangers were. And that was all she wrote for shotguns there. I don't know if a ML couldn't have done the same thing but it had always been muzzle loader before and has been only ML since. It did not help this guy was shooting multiple times fast, and you would just not get that with a ML.

[Johnny44]

Hey, so its clear where I stand. I have witnessed a young man lighting a bottle rocket while holding an m-80 in his mouth, somehow the m-80 went off busting his pallet and killing him stone dead in front of me. I have witnessed a 1 ton blast of one of my troops at Sierra Army Depot while wearing a properly adorned blast suit and he lived.

Life can be dangerous and life is a mystery, I see no reason not to use a rifled slug gun or a rifle cartridge for hunting. I chuckle at most studies that don’t take Mr. Murphy into account and think they have covered all of the variables. “Variables” are infinite.

If I had to make a hard rule for safety sakes it would be a 243 or such with a high expansion fairly frangible bullet over a large mass object at lower speed. I would also mandate an elevated shooting position.

Stuff happens !

[rolylane6]

In general, the units are much more open and much more smaller at lbj vs caddo. I have hunted extensively at both. It would be pretty easy for a rifle bullet to go from one side of the unit to the other as the units are so small and again, yes there are oaks but its not a predominately hardwood area with huge endless hardwood bottoms. The majority of the units are situated on upland sites with more than 50% prairie ecosystem. Typical of cross timbers region. Again, many rifle shots would not be stopped by grass and then continue to neighboring private land. It is what it is. The average joe hunting out there is not really too concerned about his back drop out there and more concerned about brown and down. Dont read more in to it than it is. Common sense. I have hunted lbj for 24 years and have seen the area explode into mini ranchettes all around the public units. Caddo is so heavily wooded that a recent census has shown there are 3 bigfoots per square mile. You can get lost in there

Yeah I've hunted LBJ since '82 and been living within 1/4 mile of 2 unitS for 9 years now so your not telling me anything I dont know. But again, timber is not a safety device no matter how much, how big, or how small. I guess we should all just hunt with sling shots then because the average Joe you speak of will shoot a bow, a slug, or a rifle with no regard to the neighboring properties. Heck we may as well close the roads out here too because they're liable to run over me or my wife getting there as reckless as they are! Again, I agree that there are reckless people out there, but they're everywhere, doing everything. Keep taking away the privileges of the ones who aren't the problem and soon you only have left the ones who are because they could care less about your rules. Oh, and in all the years I've been hunting out here, never heard of anyone getting shot. Oh wait, there was one. A guy I went to high school with. But he shot himself....intentionally

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[bossbowman]

It happens and probably one of the main reasons aquilla went archery only, a guy did get shot there with a shotgun slug about 20 years ago, it was a shoulder hit and he didn't die luckily. It just takes one bad incident for a rules change and as more and more people move here the little public land there is will just get more crowded it probably does become a safety issue, I can say never heard of someone being shot accidentally with a bow that would be pretty intentional but do know of a scary incident involving a crossbow a few years back, no hit but they shot towards someone else after dark.

[rolylane6]

It happens and probably one of the main reasons aquilla went archery only, a guy did get shot there with a shotgun slug about 20 years ago, it was a shoulder hit and he didn't die luckily. It just takes one bad incident for a rules change and as more and more people move here the little public land there is will just get more crowded it probably does become a safety issue, I can say never heard of someone being shot accidentally with a bow that would be pretty intentional but do know of a scary incident involving a crossbow a few years back, no hit but they shot towards someone else after dark.

Semi trucks are a safety issue too as the roads become more crowded but we don't outlaw them. We enforce the driving laws that exist (or at least we should). Accidents happen but more often than not its usually bad behavior thats the issue. The bad behavior needs to be addressed not punish the ones who are doing it right. Look at the current situation our country is in now. A few officers make bad decisions and someone dies so let's defund and take away resources from the ones who want to do the job the right way. Now they can't do the job as well and good citizens will suffer and bad ones will still do as they wish with less resistance. Putting restrictions on those who are playing by the rules because there are those who don't is never the right thing to do, ever. Logic and reason are rapidly disappearing. Rifled barrel shotguns shoot farther and someone thinks its more dangerous? Let's just get rid of them. Cancel culture strikes again. Dont like it, get rid of it. If I don't need it or like it, no one should. Wheres the evidence to support the danger of a rifled barrel shotgun on LBJ vs anywhere else. Again, I have not heard of a single incident, ever on LBJ. Not saying it hasn't or can't happen but people make mistakes and stuff happens everywhere and I mean everywhere. So why not enforce this statewide on public and private land since we're just going with the idea that something could happen? BTW, if there's ranchettes "exploding" up everywhere out here (which btw, I live out here and can say there are a few, but I wouldn't call it an explosion) then why aren't there restrictions on what those land owners can shoot since they can and will be shooting across fencelines with the rifles they can shoot. Oh wait, that would affect their rights and we can't have private land owners rights restricted, right? And just to clarify, I'm a private land owner and close enough to public land for a stray bullet to be an issue in either direction. I'm going to go sit in my bunker now and cower in fear of the dangerous and scary world out there.

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[rolylane6]

Bottom line is a rifled barrel shooting a slug does not have enough difference in shooting distance to a smoothbore slug to make this restriction relevant to safety.
And in regards to the difference in size units on LBJ vs Caddo. Here's a map of the 2 side by side.
Large and small areas on both. LBJ has stand alone units that are small but also has a lot of small units that are assembled together to make large ones. And Caddo has large units and small units that stand alone. Can someone explain to me the reason for different regulations again based on size of units? I've hunted both and Caddo always seemed to have a larger density of hunters. I know I always met people in the woods there more often than I do at LBJ. And again, the timber component is no more safe than it is unsafe. It only limits your ability to see clearly whats beyond your target. As long as they can't see what's really in harms way I guess that makes some people "feel" safe. Ooh, I think I may have stumbled onto the overall problem!

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[IkemanTX]

I welcome the new restrictions. I would even welcome archery only, now that crossbows are considered archery statewide. My reasoning is less safety than it is efficacy. The big game hunting pressure out there is going to do nothing but increase in the future as it is one of the closest, and most easily accessed pieces of public land to the DFW metroplex.

Age structure of the herd out there is pretty out of whack, and will only get worse if our current regulations remain unchanged. Our state has one of the longest firearms seasons out there. ARs helped some for a few years, but the rise in quality/average age has stabilized from that.

I didn’t think anything of it until I started hunting Oklahoma public. There is a MUCH higher percentage of mature bucks in the herd, even without antler restrictions. In fact, I didn’t buy a Texas license until turkey season for the 2019/2020 cycle because there is just way more opportunity for quality bucks across the river.

If these new rules stick, I may consider hunting LBJ again in the future. If not, I’ll continue driving right on past on my way north.


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[rolylane6]

I welcome the new restrictions. I would even welcome archery only, now that crossbows are considered archery statewide. My reasoning is less safety than it is efficacy. The big game hunting pressure out there is going to do nothing but increase in the future as it is one of the closest, and most easily accessed pieces of public land to the DFW metroplex.

Age structure of the herd out there is pretty out of whack, and will only get worse if our current regulations remain unchanged. Our state has one of the longest firearms seasons out there. ARs helped some for a few years, but the rise in quality/average age has stabilized from that.

I didn’t think anything of it until I started hunting Oklahoma public. There is a MUCH higher percentage of mature bucks in the herd, even without antler restrictions. In fact, I didn’t buy a Texas license until turkey season for the 2019/2020 cycle because there is just way more opportunity for quality bucks across the river.

If these new rules stick, I may consider hunting LBJ again in the future. If not, I’ll continue driving right on past on my way north.


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Age class in the herd is not a weapons issue, its an age class harvest issue. Restrict the harvest not the how. It makes as much sense as me saying you should only be allowed to use trad archery and handmade stone arrowheads because it's too easy to harvest all the big bucks with modern equipment. Just remember everytime you remove a group of hunters from the pool you lose that group from supporting the sport you love out there. The anti's are coming for you. You'll wish you had that support back when they do.
Oh and do they not allow gun hunting in Oklahoma? I'm sure they don't or they wouldn't have a better age structure, right?

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[Blood Trail]

I welcome the new restrictions. I would even welcome archery only, now that crossbows are considered archery statewide. My reasoning is less safety than it is efficacy. The big game hunting pressure out there is going to do nothing but increase in the future as it is one of the closest, and most easily accessed pieces of public land to the DFW metroplex.

Age structure of the herd out there is pretty out of whack, and will only get worse if our current regulations remain unchanged. Our state has one of the longest firearms seasons out there. ARs helped some for a few years, but the rise in quality/average age has stabilized from that.

I didn’t think anything of it until I started hunting Oklahoma public. There is a MUCH higher percentage of mature bucks in the herd, even without antler restrictions. In fact, I didn’t buy a Texas license until turkey season for the 2019/2020 cycle because there is just way more opportunity for quality bucks across the river.

If these new rules stick, I may consider hunting LBJ again in the future. If not, I’ll continue driving right on past on my way north.


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I welcome the new restrictions. I would even welcome archery only, now that crossbows are considered archery statewide. My reasoning is less safety than it is efficacy. The big game hunting pressure out there is going to do nothing but increase in the future as it is one of the closest, and most easily accessed pieces of public land to the DFW metroplex.

Age structure of the herd out there is pretty out of whack, and will only get worse if our current regulations remain unchanged. Our state has one of the longest firearms seasons out there. ARs helped some for a few years, but the rise in quality/average age has stabilized from that.

I didn’t think anything of it until I started hunting Oklahoma public. There is a MUCH higher percentage of mature bucks in the herd, even without antler restrictions. In fact, I didn’t buy a Texas license until turkey season for the 2019/2020 cycle because there is just way more opportunity for quality bucks across the river.

If these new rules stick, I may consider hunting LBJ again in the future. If not, I’ll continue driving right on past on my way north.


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I agree with what Rolylane said. Why punish gun hunters?


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