I hate arrows

[bcj jones]

After reading some of y'alls concerns with FOC and the fact that some of the weight was towards the rear I went to remove the wire. I guess from the impact of hitting the bag the wire shoved itself all the way at the front of the arrow. It crinkled up and is stuck at the front of the arrow and wont come out lol. That fixed my FOC problem but I was hoping this would be a temporary trial and error. I'll see if I can get it out another way. I was wondering why, despite the FOC concerns, the arrows were flying so good. I was nailing the center of the bag at 40 yards with them. I guess I know why now.

[bcj jones]

I have a cpl of questions, first what are you trying to penetrate? If it is a whitetail anything over about 375 grains will do that just fine with a fixed blade head.

What is the impact you mentioned wanting? Kinetic energy? An arrow kills by blood loss not kinetic energy like a bullet. You do need enough energy to get complete penetration.

Mostly whitetail deer and hogs. I tend to hug the front should pretty tight and want to be able to blow through the should if I hit it. You're right though, arrows do kill by blood loss and not kinetic energy, but I want enough to take down a large hog or blow through the shoulder of a whitetail. I hate to sacrifice too much speed though, so suggestions for a good median would be great!

[az2tx]

Penetrating a shoulder blade is tough if you center punch it, the outer edges not so much.

A big hogs shield can stop some bullets so you are best waiting for a quartering shot.


If you are shooting a 400 gr arrow( +or- 20 gr ) at a decent speed with a good fixed blade broadhead you should be fine. Broadhead design and construction is important.
I still shoot Rocky Mt Titaniums 100 gr

Find the sweet spot that your bow shoots the best at.

[Muskles]

After reading some of y'alls concerns with FOC and the fact that some of the weight was towards the rear I went to remove the wire. I guess from the impact of hitting the bag the wire shoved itself all the way at the front of the arrow. It crinkled up and is stuck at the front of the arrow and wont come out lol. That fixed my FOC problem but I was hoping this would be a temporary trial and error. I'll see if I can get it out another way. I was wondering why, despite the FOC concerns, the arrows were flying so good. I was nailing the center of the bag at 40 yards with them. I guess I know why now.

I was wondering about that. I started a thread a couple months ago, when I was switching from 100 to 125 grain broadheads (that's what got me started increasing overall weight and FOC). Someone posted a YouTube link that showed a guy using nylon rope to add weight. It packed forward as well. If it's shooting good, I don't see any reason to remove it. I lost 35 fps when I went from 412 to 592 grain arrows. I shoot 62# at 27" from a Mathew's Z3.

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[Rat]

Still trying to find the right weight of arrow to shoot. I asked this on another thread but have had no responses. I just added some weight to my arrows because I wanted more impact and penetration. I'm shooting a Halon 6 at 27" and 70lbs. All my arrows weight 553-555 grains total with 100 grain tips cut at 28". Now that i'm reading this maybe im way too heavy but I was recommended to try and get about 8 grains per lb of draw weight. Thats about 16 GPI. Am I way off shooting them this heavy? Shooting Easton Axis 340 spine arrows

They definitely thump the bag more than the 430ish I was shooting them at before but im sure there moving pretty slow compared to before.

Forget impact, that's nothing in archery.

When talking about penetration there are 12 factors, read the Ashby papers if you really want to know them all, here are my main factors.

1) Mass
2) FOC
3) Broadhead Design

Broadhead design has more to do with breaking bones than any other factor.
Mass will always increase penetration.
FOC (the location of the mass) will always help penetration.

So, the idea, is to build a heavy arrow, but build the weight by adding FOC; best of both worlds. For overall penetration.

Then choose a good penetrating broadhead.

A 2 blade, single bevel, cut on contact head is best. A good 4 blade, with small, breakaway bleeders is next best. A good four blade is next and a three blade is the least effective. This is dependent on a bone hit which almost always occurs (at least a rib is hit). Big mechanicals are the least effective at penetration. Remember, penetration can only occur if the bone is broke sufficiently to allow the shaft to continue, mass and FOC doesn't matter if you can't break the bone.

However, plenty of deer are killed with three blade heads, that blow through ribs all the time. Big mechanicals kill animals all the time, and blow through ribs as well, and shoulders and have the advantage of a much wider wound channel that may, in some instances, be better than a narrower would channel.

I like two blade with small bleeders, technically a four blade, with a decent mechanical advantage; I shoot Magnus Stingers. 20% FOC and 500 gr. For me, a great all around arrow, but not very fast by today's standards @ 255 FPS.

[Lightning48]

bc jones
I shoot a 2015 Bowtech Prodigy at 27" draw and 60 lb draw weight
I shoot Black Eagle X Impacts cut at 26.5" long with an Ethics 180 gr outsert/insert with a 125 grain Muzzy 4 blade head, My TAW is exactly 550 grains,No problems with penetration here as long as I do my part,and my bow is very quiet..
I'm gonna give the Tooth of the Arrow 125 gr 4 blade a try, I like how its machined out of a solid piece of steel..

[muddyfuzzy]

Thank you for the replies everyone! More info certainly helps.

Muddy fuzzy obviously I know you know a little about arrows lol. What’s wrong with adding weight with some wire? People add weight in all kinds of weird various ways

I just feel that adding weight in a more conventional manner yields more repeatable and reliable results. Honestly, mass is the easiest thing to negotiate. Pick your weight and build to it. Dropping down a spine and adding the appropriate tip weight is the way I go about it.


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[antiparadigm]

Personal story: I shoot the Victory VAP arrows at 445 grains (125gr head) at 292 fps. They actually increase penetration vs "similar" (broad statement) arrows due to the micro diameter of the arrow, the taper from the outsert/insert to the shaft, and the ICE ceramic coating. Sounds like a lot of marketing junk, but I have proven it works. I have tested them against arrows that weigh over 600 grains (FMJ Dangerous Game) and they go deeper - even at 60 yards. And by mental math estimate, fly about 25 fps faster.

So coat your arrows with Teflon. Ha. Jk.

Like someone said before, sounds like penetration won't be an issue for you if you're hunting in TX. Deer are pretty small compared to up north. I had a pass through at 420 grains, breaking ribs with mechanical heads on quartering away shot on a deer. You'll be fine.

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[enewman]

Personal story: I shoot the Victory VAP arrows at 445 grains (125gr head) at 292 fps. They actually increase penetration vs "similar" (broad statement) arrows due to the micro diameter of the arrow, the taper from the outsert/insert to the shaft, and the ICE ceramic coating. Sounds like a lot of marketing junk, but I have proven it works. I have tested them against arrows that weigh over 600 grains (FMJ Dangerous Game) and they go deeper - even at 60 yards. And by mental math estimate, fly about 25 fps faster.

So coat your arrows with Teflon. Ha. Jk.

Like someone said before, sounds like penetration won't be an issue for you if you're hunting in TX. Deer are pretty small compared to up north. I had a pass through at 420 grains, breaking ribs with mechanical heads on quartering away shot on a deer. You'll be fine.

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What did you shoot to see that the lighter arrow deeper then the 600 gr arrow