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This is the idiocy we have to deal with on the TP&W commision

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    This is the idiocy we have to deal with on the TP&W commision

    This a response letter from Ralph Huggins about the new alligator gar proposals that would eliminate bowfishing at night:

    "Dear Mr. Williams:
    I am responding to your January 25th email inquiry about proposed rules—soon to be published for public comment, that if passed, would provide needed reporting on the taking of the state’s largest freshwater fish, and would protect the largest of this valuable natural resource from overharvest and waste.
    My interest in this fish goes back to around 2009 when then Inland Fisheries Director, Phil Durocher, made a presentation to the Commission in support of his recommendation that the harvest of these fish be limited to one per person per day to give the staff time to do more work and study of protections needed for this fish. As you likely know, because it is long-lived, only spawns intermittently, spawns in very shallow water, and frequently surfaces for air, it is vulnerable to exploitation. In just the last 60 or so years their historic range has contracted significantly. Now, Texas has the best remaining alligator gar populations that contain numerous very large females. Some of those fish are over 40 years old. Our Inland Fisheries team has made estimates of the numbers of alligator gar. Importantly, the data you reference is from a snapshot estimate made in 2011—nearly eight years ago.
    Data and populations estimates are certainly relevant but not the only factors to be considered. The Commission seeks to promote stewardship on both public and private lands and waters including the promotion of a conservation ethic, fair chase sportsmanship, and preventing waste of natural resources.
    Moreover, since that last estimate was prepared, interest in large gar has grown. And the rapid evolution of technology and equipment available to kill large alligator gar has made it much easier to take these fish when on the surface, in shallow water, or at night. So, the Commission has been interested in proposed rules that would reduce the number of big gar killed and in getting more reporting of gar taken.
    Nothing in the proposed rules affects an angler from trying to catch and release a large gar on a rod and reel anywhere at any time. But obviously, if each adult Texan killed a large gar, or even if a few hundred individuals each took one large gar a day for 30 days, the large gar would soon disappear, something we do not want to see.
    Further, are you aware that the Texas Department of State Health Services has a “DO NOT EAT” advisory for alligator gar taken from most of the Trinity? It is difficult to imagine that anyone would disregard this important caution and consume alligator gar caught from that river.
    Loss of habitat for spawning and alteration of flow in rivers has also contributed to their decline. These factors have negatively impacted alligator gar populations, which only increases the need to reduce and monitor harvest.
    My personal interest here is to preserve for future generations of Texas families the experience of seeing and having the chance to catch one of these gentle giants. We also believe that the large alligator gar in Texas attract interest from many non-resident anglers who can only catch a huge alligator gar by coming to Texas waters.
    I believe the Commission is committed to acting with deliberation but caution to avoid allowing this magnificent species ending up where we see paddlefish or sturgeon, two other large freshwater fish that are in trouble due in part to exploitation.
    Staff is expected to include in the alligator gar proposals that will be published for public comment and possible Commission action at its March meeting a limited draw for tags that permit a party to take an alligator gar in the Trinity in excess of four feet in length.
    Thank you for your interest in protecting the large alligator gar."

    So, if every man, woman, and child in Texas harvested an alligator gar in Texas, they would be endangered. How stupid can you be? He knows ****ed well that will never happen and that the same could be said about a whole lot of other species that these draconian proposals are not being aimed at. Secondly, paddle fish and sturgeon have not been exploited in Texas. Their populations have suffered from man made dams preventing spawning in their native rivers. If you have to lie to support you position, your position is a weak one.
    Last edited by ultrastealth; 02-07-2019, 08:10 AM.

    #2
    If you ever think you might want to bowfish for alligator gar in Texas, I urge you to contact dave.terre@tpwd.texas.gov and oppose these new regs. They are rapidly moving toward stopping all bowfishing for alligator gar. I realize that these regs don't completely shut it down, but it does severely curtail it, and this comes on the heals of other recent restrictions. They don't like bowfishing, period, and they will continue to move down this path unless they are stopped soon.

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      #3
      Would you be okay with bowfishing restrictions on those portions of the Trinity with consumption advisories?

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        #4
        Originally posted by TWarren View Post
        Would you be okay with bowfishing restrictions on those portions of the Trinity with consumption advisories?
        No, that's an individual's call, not the state's. If you want to use that as a justification, all of Galveston Bay would be off limits to trout fishing...all of it.

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          #5
          I can vouche for the river north of HWY34 to Dallas. No shortage of gar. This whole ordeal has turned into a rod and reel vs bow fisherman and its a shame because most rod and reel fisherman cut there teether bowfishing. I agreed with the 1 gar/day but this has gotten way to ridiculous.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by ultrastealth View Post
            No, that's an individual's call, not the state's. If you want to use that as a justification, all of Galveston Bay would be off limits to trout fishing...all of it.


            Well stated. There are advisories at the fred hartman, ship channel, and anywhere they dredge! Every weekend people fishing there and keeping fish.


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by manwitaplan View Post
              Well stated. There are advisories at the fred hartman, ship channel, and anywhere they dredge! Every weekend people fishing there and keeping fish.


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
              It's actually worse than that. The ship channel area is a no eat zone. The rest of Trinity, East Bay, Main Bay, and West Bay are no more than 8 oz. of trout or catfish per month consumption.

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                #8
                Well I looked up releasing deeply hooked fish (which all rod and reel alligator gar are)
                are anywhere from 10-75% mortality rate.
                so the rod and reel guys are killing fish too, you just don't see them on the bottom of the river.
                And to tell the truth I don't have a problem with a 1 per year tag. But they are putting a max 4' size limit so you can never get a trophy fish ever again.
                And outlawing nighttime bowfishing for them ,That proves they have no knowledge of bowfishing gator gar. if you want to shot one you go during the day

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by mudkat View Post
                  Well I looked up releasing deeply hooked fish (which all rod and reel alligator gar are)
                  are anywhere from 10-75% mortality rate.
                  That is a really large range. In fact that only leaves out 35% of the probability. almost like saying 0-100% mortality

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                    #10
                    We need more science.

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                      #11
                      I'd be willing to bet that if less large gar were caught/shot and left on the bank to rot, this wouldn't even be a conversation. And don't tell me it doesn't happen. I've seen it with my own two eyes. I think gar are the javelina of the water world in many people's eyes.
                      Last edited by HUNTNETIME; 02-07-2019, 02:27 PM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by mudkat View Post
                        Well I looked up releasing deeply hooked fish (which all rod and reel alligator gar are)
                        are anywhere from 10-75% mortality rate.
                        so the rod and reel guys are killing fish too, you just don't see them on the bottom of the river.
                        And to tell the truth I don't have a problem with a 1 per year tag. But they are putting a max 4' size limit so you can never get a trophy fish ever again.
                        And outlawing nighttime bowfishing for them ,That proves they have no knowledge of bowfishing gator gar. if you want to shot one you go during the day
                        You get shots during the day, but they are quick rolling shots. At night they will hover just under the surface and provide a much better target. Yes, I've done it quite a bit, I do know what I'm talking about.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by HUNTNETIME View Post
                          I'd be willing to bet that if less large gar weren't caught/shot and left on the bank to rot, this wouldn't even be a conversation. And don't tell me it doesn't happen. I've seen it with my own two eyes. I think gar are the javelina of the water world in many people's eyes.
                          hey Gar have been considered trash fish long before bowfishermen went after them ,I heard lots of people say they would shoot them in the head with a pistol when they were on trotlines or break their snout off and let them go to die, news flash most fisherman hate them.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by BrianL View Post
                            That is a really large range. In fact that only leaves out 35% of the probability. almost like saying 0-100% mortality
                            that was the range of different kinds of fish and different studies
                            that's just the range of mortality rates I saw.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by ultrastealth View Post
                              You get shots during the day, but they are quick rolling shots. At night they will hover just under the surface and provide a much better target. Yes, I've done it quite a bit, I do know what I'm talking about.
                              Well guess what I've done a Whole lot of bowfishing to and they are rarely seen at night. we put on the trinity river shootout for years which was a night time tournament and out of all the years we put it on I'd say the number of gator gar brought in was maybe 5 maybe ! now the Gar bonanza was a daytime shoot and they did bring in quite a few big gar.

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