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Deer University - Culling

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    #16
    Originally posted by Dale Moser View Post
    KILLING ENOUGH DOES, imo is the way to make sure the stronger genes prevail, but we can make **** little difference in that regard either...genetics wise.
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    I agree with that one. Although I don't own property to hunt on (have a great lease though) I don't think that killing "cull" bucks is a useless practice unless they are a for real 5-6 year old with spikes still on him or some just pitiful rack. The last place we lived on was a rather scattered subdivision of 1-5 acre plots separated by (mandate from the subdivision) 2 acre parcels. Made for plenty of room from neighbors and lots of places for deer to roam. I can't count how many times we had doe hop the fence and fawn in the yard, we kept a quarter acre uncut and brushed in just for that purpose. On our spot we had one heavy 12 point that my daughter named "My buck" that we'd see a few times a month until the rut came in and then he'd be on our place or the parcels to our left and right almost daily. Even caught him in the back near our garden doing his business with some of his does. We saw him and his offspring and does enough to know them on sight. Most of his offspring that dropped as bucks were spikes the first year with an occasional 2x1 or 2x2. Third year we were there a new doe shows up and the buck she dropped that year came out a 3x3 in his first year of velvet. Big bodied and had a lot of potential. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the does genetics had a much larger hand in that than the sire. We sold the place a year later due to job move but did see that now two year old once before we left. He was just coming into velvet and was as big as his father already in the body. Another odd fact is that his regular does dropped twins and triplets every year. That new doe just dropped the single.

    Bad part is you can't tell a doe's genetics like you can a bucks. Or at least I can't

    Richard

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      #17
      I think the biggest thing that is missed is that bucks only carry 1/2 of the genes. You have no idea what kind of antler growth gene mama has.

      Also, bucks with a bigger first set usually end up with larger antlers at maturity. Usually.

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        #18
        Originally posted by HighwayHunter View Post
        Recently the Deer University podcast posted an episode about culling. Without getting into the nuts and bolts of the discussion, the end of the conversation between the two biologists came to the conclusion that culling bucks at any age doesn’t really work. I was curious to know what y’all thought about that. The reasoning behind why it doesn’t work (outside of the biologists potentially anecdotal first hand experience on his own ranch) is that just letting bucks reach 5-7 years old will increase the overall score of bucks on your property and that not all spikes are spikes, most specifically yearling spikes. What say the green screen?


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        King Ranch did a study as well and came up with the same results.

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          #19
          I hunt in an AR county. We are not allowed to cull.

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            #20
            Originally posted by MQ32Shooter View Post
            I hunt in an AR county. We are not allowed to cull.


            There are larger ranches in AR counties under MLD who do cull (most timber leases) wonder if it’s actually working


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              #21
              Originally posted by HighwayHunter View Post
              There are larger ranches in AR counties under MLD who do cull (most timber leases) wonder if it’s actually working


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              Not sure about this >>> (most timber leases).
              Are you saying most timber leases are MLD?

              Did you mean that the larger ranches that are MLD are mostly timber leases?

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                #22
                TO me we allow cull bucks so that members wont shoot the good up and comers until they reach maturity. This gives them targets to hunt and makes it easier to let others walk.

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                  #23
                  What happen to the A&M study that showed inferior antlers will always be such and the young and inferior are more aggressive breaders?

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                    #24
                    I'm convinced culling does not work. See attached article. You CANNOT know the antler potential genetics in a doe's DNA that she will pass onto her buck fawns. Age and range conditions/nutrition are the real contributing factors. Not culling.
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by HUNTNETIME; 01-09-2019, 08:01 AM.

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                      #25
                      So dont shoot any bucks!!!

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by AntlerCollector View Post
                        Not sure about this >>> (most timber leases).
                        Are you saying most timber leases are MLD?

                        Did you mean that the larger ranches that are MLD are mostly timber leases?


                        It seems (from the outside looking in) that a large portion of timber leases are operating under MLD management practices. I’ll boil it down to most deer leases east of 35 from the gulf to Oklahoma, more likely to have AR and less likely to have strict “culling standards”. However if the MLD leases that do allow culling per say, how many of them are seeing a benefit from shooting 2-4 year old “genetically inferior” bucks. Given a control that each of these leases is meeting doe harvest numbers authorized by the biologists.


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                          #27
                          Originally posted by denimdeerslayer View Post
                          So dont shoot any bucks!!!


                          Don’t shoot any young bucks is what they are saying.


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                            #28
                            oh boy here we go! I love reading these threads!! Tuned in!

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by Johnny44 View Post
                              What happen to the A&M study that showed inferior antlers will always be such and the young and inferior are more aggressive breaders?


                              I’d agree with that study, but if everything else is right then what’s wrong with having a 140” 8 point on your property or even a 130” 7 point, when you only have 1-3 deer over 150”


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                                #30
                                I believe culling has multiple benefits, even if it's not really to "improve the herd genetics" as most people assume. If a buck has terrible antlers, I don't need him eating away on the limited supply of browse, first and foremost.

                                I do believe that unless you're HF, trying to control your herd genetics is like herding cats. Too many animals coming and going to ever really lock it down, and the bad genetics in your area are still going to be present in every animal outside your property that's going to be breeding with does that come and go. Can't ever get rid of them unless you're working in a vacuum.

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