removing gun registration ...

[tdwinklr]

In Texas, it is not illegal to sell a firearm to an individual without a record of the sale. If you are concerned about future liability, jot down notes about who you sold it to, save emails or texts, or PMs.


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I have most of that info, just wasn't sure if that was enough. You never know now days.

[Tommyh]

I have most of that info, just wasn't sure if that was enough. You never know now days.

Are you worried about atf tracing, or gun mfr warranty repairs transferring to the next owner? Two totally separate items.

[TacticalCowboy]

Really really bad idea to give any individual your SS or DL #

Yup.

If I engage in some gun purchase or trade and the other party wants it, they get some digits that look like a SSN or DL number.

[tdwinklr]

Are you worried about atf tracing, or gun mfr warranty repairs transferring to the next owner? Two totally separate items.

ATF tracing back to me for something I would not have done. They may be separate items but same info is involved.
You do the same thing with a car, fill out a form releasing your liability, if you don't go with the buyer to the tax office and transfer your title/tags there. I've had that come back to bite me before where the buyer didn't do their part.

[Artos]

ATF just traces the paper trail available...I helped them with a trace a couple weeks ago.

Gun turns up stolen or crime scene...what are their options.

Take s/n to mfg.
mfg sends to distribution
distribution sends to ffl
atf calls ffl & ffl gives 4473 info of john Doe
John Doe tells atf he sold gun to jane doe
Jane doe tells atf that she traded at a gun show w/ stranger.
atf finally figures their case based on gun show vid or it goes cold.
The end.

John Doe is not responsible or get in trouble
Jane Doe is not responsible or get in trouble

Don't worry about it but if you can help atf w/ the 411 you may very well help someone retrieve a stolen gun.

[Hoggslayer]

Bill of sale, printed name and signed by both parties with either SS# or DL#.

That's the ID-10-T form I was speaking of.

I don't know anyone in there right mine that would willingly give a stranger that kind of info.

Lots of guns for sale out there. if someone wants that kind of info from me then I'll pass.

[tgridley]

When you fill out the form to buy the gun, it stays with the store, shop, etc. for their records. They do not sent it to ATF or anyone else. Yes as stated above, it can be traced back to you to confirm ownership and to see if you still have it. The ATF form is not for registration, it's to make sure convicted felons don't purchase a firearm.

Some of you folks worry to much about nothing.

[hchntr]

When you fill out the form to buy the gun, it stays with the store, shop, etc. for their records. They do not sent it to ATF or anyone else. Yes as stated above, it can be traced back to you to confirm ownership and to see if you still have it. The ATF form is not for registration, it's to make sure convicted felons don't purchase a firearm.

Some of you folks worry to much about nothing.

X2


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[sir shovelhands]

Really really bad idea to give any individual your SS or DL #

Yep and unnecessary. Legal requirements are pretty lax in Texas for transfer requirements. The only no-no's are:

-selling to someone under 18
-selling to someone intoxicated
-selling to someone released from a felony sentence the in past 5 years
-selling to someone who has a restraining order against them
-selling to someone planning to use it in a crime

Also, the actual legal wording says "knowingly/intentionally" before each of those, so if you don't know otherwise, I don't see how you can be held at fault. And oddly the last one only applies to handguns...so I guess if your buddy wants to off someone it's legal to hook them up with a rifle to do it?

All I need for a sale is a name (and the phone number they used), so I can point the police in the right direction if they murder someone.

[Mike D]

ATF just traces the paper trail available...I helped them with a trace a couple weeks ago.

Gun turns up stolen or crime scene...what are their options.

Take s/n to mfg.
mfg sends to distribution
distribution sends to ffl
atf calls ffl & ffl gives 4473 info of john Doe
John Doe tells atf he sold gun to jane doe
Jane doe tells atf that she traded at a gun show w/ stranger.
atf finally figures their case based on gun show vid or it goes cold.
The end.

John Doe is not responsible or get in trouble
Jane Doe is not responsible or get in trouble

Don't worry about it but if you can help atf w/ the 411 you may very well help someone retrieve a stolen gun.

I can say from experience this is EXACTLY how it goes down. They can trace to the original purchaser if done through FFL. You are under ZERO obligation in the State of Texas to keep a disposition record of any firearm you sell. You are obligated to reasonably believe that the person was not prohibited from owning a firearm. I for one want it to stay exactly this way and I will never buy private party that requires a bill of sale or any other nonsense. And you **** sure ain’t getting a copy of my DL/SS/LTC# or a picture of any of these.

ATF tracing back to me for something I would not have done. They may be separate items but same info is involved.

You do the same thing with a car, fill out a form releasing your liability, if you don't go with the buyer to the tax office and transfer your title/tags there. I've had that come back to bite me before where the buyer didn't do their part.

See above. Don’t overthink it.

Bill of sale, printed name and signed by both parties with either SS# or DL#.

So let’s assume you do a BOS and it turns out the person was prohibited from owning a firearm; now what? You have just documented selling a firearm to a prohibited person.

If you are worried about it, sell thru an FFL, otherwise if anyone asked you sold it to some dude a long time ago.

Yep.

You don't register firearms in Texas, they record the sale which there is an argument to be made that is quasi registration but I digress.

People stress out about this crap entirely to much. Pretty simple. You sell gun to Joe Blow. Joe Blow sells it to Dale Dumbarse or more likely Dale Dumbarse steals it from Joe Blow, then robs a convenience store with it. If it ever gets tracked back to you which is highly unlikely it would be to try and verify your ownership to return it. Pretty simple conversation to be had. ATF gestapo- We are here about xyz firearm shows you purchased it in 1975, do you know the where abouts of it?
Gun Owner, I sold that pistol and it is no longer in my possession.
End Conversation.
You are not legally obligated to verify that the buyer is able to legally purchase that firearm and you are not legally required to document or keep records of it either. Now if ATF gestapo shows up and you answer yeah I sold it to a shady SOB I thought he looked suspicious then yeah gonna be a bad day. But if you sold it in good faith all is well.

Perfect.

Really really bad idea to give any individual your SS or DL #

Indeed.

Want my bank account number while your at it?



Jeez some of yall are crazy.

Yep.

That's the ID-10-T form I was speaking of.



I don't know anyone in there right mine that would willingly give a stranger that kind of info.



Lots of guns for sale out there. if someone wants that kind of info from me then I'll pass.

Not getting it from me that’s for sure.

When you fill out the form to buy the gun, it stays with the store, shop, etc. for their records. They do not sent it to ATF or anyone else. Yes as stated above, it can be traced back to you to confirm ownership and to see if you still have it. The ATF form is not for registration, it's to make sure convicted felons don't purchase a firearm.

Some of you folks worry to much about nothing.

Definitely. Enjoy the freedoms we still have. Don’t willingly give them away.


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[BrianL]

So let’s assume you do a BOS and it turns out the person was prohibited from owning a firearm; now what? You have just documented selling a firearm to a prohibited person.

My thoughts as well. I prefer not to have that info in my possession.

[SabineHunter]

Bill of sale, printed name and signed by both parties with either SS# or DL#.

Totally unnecessary and virtually useless.

[duckmanep]

When you fill out the form to buy the gun, it stays with the store, shop, etc. for their records. They do not sent it to ATF or anyone else. Yes as stated above, it can be traced back to you to confirm ownership and to see if you still have it. The ATF form is not for registration, it's to make sure convicted felons don't purchase a firearm.

Some of you folks worry to much about nothing.

So they never send any forms to the ATF?

[Artos]

So they never send any forms to the ATF?

Only when a ffl closes their business then the ffl surrenders the 4473's & A&D book along with the ffl.

[Mike D]

So they never send any forms to the ATF?

It’s my understanding that all 4473 stays with the FFL until time that the FFL is no longer in business OR they are destroyed after 20 years if the FFL is still in business.

If they need a form they usually show up in person to get a copy.


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