Astros players also cheated

[Burntorange Bowhunter]

They did not use wires or buzzers or any other electronic device attached to their bodies. The sign stealing was limited to the CF camera and the monitor next to the dugout. It has been widely debunked that they used devices on their bodies

So what was Altuve doing and saying as he approached home plate?

He was definitely saying no and grabbing/protecting his collar.

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[cj7zrcool]

Look around you. The world is a changin. Technology is very advanced. Things aren't the same as they were in our youth.

Yeah, I get it. Does that mean that just because the technology exists to do something that it should be legal?

Ok let me ask you. Do you reckon the Astros are the only team in the league doing this...?
If you believe that you're naive.

Mark this post -
All the teams in the league were doing the same thing. Dig into it some. MLB then issued a league wide warning in 9/2017. Everyone essentially ignored it. The league wanted to shut it down. Who better to pick to send a message than a recent champ? They would never do it to the Sox or Nats. (One of MLBs storied franchises and the Cinderella darling Champ from last year.

Never said or suggested that they were the only ones doing it. There's no place in the game for it, period. I am a Rangers fan and have been since they came to Arlington. If they were doing it, they should be punished as well. My traditionalist view doesn't discriminate.

[b.latiolais]

I'm not trying to start any kind of argument. I'm enjoying reading the thread and different views on the subject and the comments of "how the game should be" and "traditionalist" got me thinking. Does anyone relate this to hunting and feel like the use of trail cameras takes away from the "traditional" ways of what we all love to do? Maybe this should be a entire thread on its own...

[jshouse]

Saw somewhere that they had the bullpen catchers in on the act too, using some type of messaging device or walkie talkie from the monitor in the clubhouse. Hands on the fence for this, elbows on the fence for that....

[jshouse]

I'm not trying to start any kind of argument. I'm enjoying reading the thread and different views on the subject and the comments of "how the game should be" and "traditionalist" got me thinking. Does anyone relate this to hunting and feel like the use of trail cameras takes away from the "traditional" ways of what we all love to do? Maybe this should be a entire thread on its own...

Believe that's been discussed a few times here before

[DapperDan]

Stealing signs is part of the game, BUT USING A Video camera hidden in center field to do it, is cheating-no debate.


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It wasn’t cheating. There were no rules in 2017 in regards to cameras with live feeds and video monitoring. It went into affect in 18. All allegations are for 17.


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[DapperDan]

Can I get a refund? Sign stealing is common, but the issue isn't with a batter or base runner stealing a signal. It is using devices planted to steal signals and relayed by live feed to the batters. I have no issue with a base runner or batter trying to steal a sign, however this is significantly worse.

Read my post above. There were no rules in 2017 regarding video feeds or locations of live feed cameras. Kinda of like there were no rules against certain PED drugs in the 90’s. If there isn’t a rule against something that can increase odds of winning or performance, expect anyone smart enough to figure it out to take advantage of it....


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[Smart]

I'm not trying to start any kind of argument. I'm enjoying reading the thread and different views on the subject and the comments of "how the game should be" and "traditionalist" got me thinking. Does anyone relate this to hunting and feel like the use of trail cameras takes away from the "traditional" ways of what we all love to do? Maybe this should be a entire thread on its own...

When somebody starts a paragraph "I'm not trying to start an argument", the information immediately following will usually start an argument.


To answer your question.... yes.... but it also creates a whole slew of positive usage as well. Just like car did to horses and calculators did to abacuses. The difference here is everybody has access to them if they want ......

[DapperDan]

One of Smart's windrlickers.




This^

Obviously baseball isn't for some of you. Tradition & integrity still have a place in the game for some of us. If you think the uproar is only about sign stealing, you're missing the whole point. Sign stealing has been & will forever continue to be part of the game, and I have absolutely no problem with that. It's when your not smart enough to do it right, (using only your ears & eyes to do it, analog-style) and must have cameras, microphones, buzzers, & other electronic **** that doesn't belong. Plain & simple, that's not gamesmanship, it's cheating.

I agree with 99%. The one disagreement is that in 2017 it wasn’t cheating. Does that mean I agree, no. Bc I agree with the rest of your statement.


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[DapperDan]

https://youtu.be/FBv3WgMLDBY

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[Smart]

Read my post above. There were no rules in 2017 regarding video feeds or locations of live feed cameras. Kinda of like there were no rules against certain PED drugs in the 90’s. If there isn’t a rule against something that can increase odds of winning or performance, expect anyone smart enough to figure it out to take advantage of it....


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On March 31, 2001, executive vice-president of baseball operations Sandy Alderson sent teams a memo that restricted the use of electronic equipment during a game.

Such equipment and technology "could not be used for communications or for the purpose of stealing signs or conveying information designed to give a club an advantage."

Does the Method Matter?

Alderson mentioned nothing about using eyes, limbs, head, or any other part of the anatomy to obtain signs—only electronic equipment.


2018 Manfred tightened the restriction and was more specific, but it has been illegal for a while.

[b.latiolais]

When somebody starts a paragraph "I'm not trying to start an argument", the information immediately following will usually start an argument.


To answer your question.... yes.... but it also creates a whole slew of positive usage as well. Just like car did to horses and calculators did to abacuses. The difference here is everybody has access to them if they want ......

Oh i use them also. I think they serve a good purpose for alot of ranches for management practices etc... We own a small acreage ranch and we still use them. Anyhow, i went and searched some of the old threads. Probably shouldn't have brought this up on this thread.

I'm and Astros fan. They cheated, they got caught, it sucks.

[jshouse]

I agree with 99%. The one disagreement is that in 2017 it wasn’t cheating. Does that mean I agree, no. Bc I agree with the rest of your statement.


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You keep saying this but I'm reading that the investigation included parts of 2018 as well. And in 2001 the MLB issued a memorandum banning the use of mechanical devices to steal signs.

The Astros and any other team that used a mechanical device to steal signs are wrong and should be punished accordingly. Take your whippin' and move on.

[Smart]

Oh i use them also. I think they serve a good purpose for alot of ranches for management practices etc... We own a small acreage ranch and we still use them. Anyhow, i went and searched some of the old threads. Probably shouldn't have brought this up on this thread.

I'm and Astros fan. They cheated, they got caught, it sucks.

Somebody get the match for b-lat's gas..

[Tony Pic]

The integrity/skill of a human game is gone with electronics. Baseball wants the humanness(is that a word?) in the game or else Umpires could be replaced with switches on bags for calls, sensors in balls and gloves for contact and balls staying in play. Lasers on left and right field lines. Like I have said. I worked 11 years at a few stadiums and I can tell you. What I wrote above was tested by MLB back in the mid 90's. The Umpires Union, of course, was against it and from what I heard from a few involved that the fans they surveyed would not like that either. The technology is there. It is just not being used.
The 96 world series was the first time they put mikes and cams on the catcher's masks and mikes inside the bases. That is what the producer for Fox told us as our crew was installing the batteries in the bases, then turning them over to the grounds crew for field install. The technology was being integrated back then.