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    With no points you really have no choice but to go to CO OTC although MT had leftover combo tags last year. From what I know about CO OTC units is you will either have to spike on top or base camp and be subject to several miles of hinking every morning and evening. I'll take the spike camp any day. Spiking is not that bad as long as your system is good. Tylenol or Excedrin PM is great for spike hunting. Sounds like you want the real deal high country Elk hunt and you will get it in CO OTC units.

    In today's age learning can be done at home. Check out Elknut's videos and instruction manuals. There is more than enough info to get you started. As far as bagging a cow don't fool yourself into thinking taking a cow is like taking a whitetail doe. Cows are as hard or even harder than young bulls to harvest with a bow on purpose. I have not had a single cow opportunity but you are on the right track. Any legal bull, or animal is the right frame of mind. Save the 330's for UT, NV, AZ and the Gila and harvest anything you can. Any DIY archery Elk with a bow is a trophy!

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      Oh boy! Sound like my kind of guy!!! I suggest Wilderness Areas. Start there, and see what units you would like to learn more about. Then call all the biologists and game wardens that work that area and take notes. Then use Google Earth and the Colorado Game maps to cross check access points, drainages, and migration routes. Don't worry about draws, just OTC units in Colorado.

      Start training now, I'm serious. You can never be in too good of shape. However, you don't have to be able to do an IronMan to kill elk. If you can, buy used equipment or non hunting brand gear. Camo makes everything more expensive.

      Check out CamoFire for deals as well.

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        Also, I saw a good 300+ 6x6 last year in an OTC unit and had a buddy kill a BIG 6x6 in an OTC unit as well. They are out there, just not very many of them. Kind of like winning the lottery.

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            More questions...haha.

            Aight...I've been looking at units that I can get an OTC either-sex tag in...I'm a little confused though, I see that there is land that is owned by the NFS, then there's land that is owned by the BLM, can I hunt both of these with an OTC tag? I'm assuming so since I haven't found any information that says you have to have a permit for BLM on the DOW website, but I want to be 100%.

            The amount information that's out there and trying to sift through it all is mind boggling right now, I don't even know where to begin really because I don't know where exactly I can hunt with just a nature stamp and OTC either-sex tag.

            Any guidance would be appreciated, gents.

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              Yes, you are able to hunt national forest and BLM land with the OTC tag, as long as you are in the hunting unit. In fact, I believe you can hunt across units as long as both are OTC units.

              If you are really trying to get away from people and usually into more elk, check out the Wilderness areas and where they are located. I only hunt Wilderness areas anymore...unless I draw. Which never happens.

              Side note, think about which area/unit you wouldn't mind hunting every year or drive to every year. The BEST way to hunt a unit is to hunt one you are familiar with. Only get familiar with an area once you have spent some time in it. That is why the locals usually have the advantage.

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                Your public land is colored green(National Forest), Orange(BLM) and Blue(State) and you can hunt any of it within the bounds of your tag(White is private and off limits unless it is on a public easement Rd thru the private). You can also hunt any of the OTC units and cross unit boundries as long it is also an OTC unit. As a general rule NF land is higher, more rugged land and usually where the Elk are in Sept. BLM and State land is usually lower stuff. This is not always the case though. Wilderness is great for the Backpack hunter as no motorized vehicles can go in there. It is also more rugged so the fair weather hunters usually don't have the fortitude to go in there.

                Wilderness areas I would look at:
                Weminuche
                Lizard Head
                Fossil Ridge
                West Elk
                Flat Tops(biggest heard but also the most hunters)
                Last edited by drthornton; 12-01-2011, 10:16 AM.

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                  Scouting from home for the newbie...For someone that has never been Elk hunting or even in the high country finding Elk may seem like an enormous hurdle. I am no expert and really not too far from a newbie myself but here is how I approach scouting CO OTC units.

                  1. Don't just post "I want to go Elk hunting...tell me where to go". You won't get any help that way. Get educated and ask specific questions about specific areas and ask to do it via email or PM.
                  2. Go to the CO hunting website and familiarize yourself with its resources.
                  3. Download the OTC Either Sex map http://wildlife.state.co.us/SiteColl...lkArchery1.pdf anything east of I-25 is not Elk country and mostly private.
                  4. Go to http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/...ingGuides.aspx and download the NW and SW Hunt Guides and try to get an idea of where the Elk herd is good and healthy
                  5. Should be able to get an idea of units which may fit your needs.
                  6. Go to http://www.mytopo.com/products/hunt-...e.cfm?state=CO and find the unit you are interested in based on Stats. Just eyeball it for the amount of public land it has and also look for possible access issues.
                  7. Go to http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/...tatistics.aspx. In here you can find how many elk are in an area. how many archers hunt it and their success. Be careful not to use just success as that number can be off for the DIY hunter. Some units have a lot of private and outfitted hunters which up the success rate while the DIY hunter's success is dismal in comparison.
                  8. So now you have a handful of OTC units where there is a healthy heard, where the # of hunters/ elk is low, where there is a lot of public land and what the general success rate for those archers is.

                  Now use Google Earth or other mapping software with aerial and topo layers to find places that look Elky. High north facing benches and benches at the heads of drainages in timber off major trails is generally what you are looking for. Next find a way to get in there while keeping in mind that you have to get 200# out of there as well. Be ready to change your plan and have maps to with you to do so.

                  This year in Wyoming we no more than a 1/2 mile from camp, bugled and got on a bull. My buddy shot him. This guy was about mid way down the mountain on a creek drainage bench. I had a close call with a bull in the same area the same day. I had in my mind the Bulls were on top at the heads of the drainages so we hunted up there only to find old sign. I finally got it thru my skull to get the map out and scout areas with the same dynamic as the bulls we encountered on the first day. Yes it worked. Point is to use guidelines but let the Elk tell you where they want to be.

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                    Thanks gents, knowing what I know now...here's what I've come up with.

                    GMU's 44, 444 are very attractive to me, 44 has alot of access roads so that I could get from one area to the other in my truck, then spike camp from there, same thing in 444. A large majority of both units is the White River National Forest and there's also Holy Cross Wilderness area as well. The success rates are in the 20's, but a lot of that I'm sure has to do with hunting pressure. It's alot what I have in mind when I think colorado, lots of peaks and valleys which should give me alot of opportunity to find elk if the weather doesn't cooperate in one way or another and I have a feeling with the easy roads a lot of elk will be pushed up into the high country where most people won't want to pack in at.

                    I'm also interested in GMU's 25, 26 and 34 which are all part of the Flat Tops like you mentioned drthornton, I've read a bunch up on the Flat Tops and while it's not what I would consider typical Colorado terrain (EDIT: I just realized how stupid this sounds...I live in Houston, anything taller than Big Bend is gonna be a cool experience to me!) it might be a good place to get my feet wet, since I'm gonna be wet behind the ears and green as the grass on the plains. Statistically speaking these areas and 44 and 444 have about the same amount of pressure and success rates, despite the fact that 44 and 444 have a smaller elk population.

                    Guess it's time for me to start digging deeper and looking at access points and north facing benches and other elk habitat.

                    May sound like a stupid question, but where can you find maps of the wilderness areas? The NFS? Tried looking online but all I've gotten is a list with some background. Thanks!

                    And thanks for the tips drthornton and TWP, I wouldn't have known where to even start without you guys helping me out.
                    Last edited by rhendrix; 12-01-2011, 12:40 PM.

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                      Best maps that I have found are National Geographic maps. Units 44 and 444 are for guys who wear their big boy pants when they go hunting. Lots of elk killed right off of I-70 in that part of the world, but it is plenty high and rugged. Also LOTS of elk and not as much pressure as most spots. I usually hunt a little further east in a small wilderness area, I can see town from treeline, but we never come across other hunters.

                      Be in as good a shape as you can be, and then be smart about what you can and can't do physically and you will be fine.

                      As Dr Thornton has said, you really NEED to buy the Elknuts stuff. Lets you understand a little more about elk and how they work.

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                        Originally posted by drthornton View Post
                        Scouting from home for the newbie...For someone that has never been Elk hunting or even in the high country finding Elk may seem like an enormous hurdle. I am no expert and really not too far from a newbie myself but here is how I approach scouting CO OTC units.

                        1. Don't just post "I want to go Elk hunting...tell me where to go". You won't get any help that way. Get educated and ask specific questions about specific areas and ask to do it via email or PM.
                        2. Go to the CO hunting website and familiarize yourself with its resources.
                        3. Download the OTC Either Sex map http://wildlife.state.co.us/SiteColl...lkArchery1.pdf anything east of I-25 is not Elk country and mostly private.
                        4. Go to http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/...ingGuides.aspx and download the NW and SW Hunt Guides and try to get an idea of where the Elk herd is good and healthy
                        5. Should be able to get an idea of units which may fit your needs.
                        6. Go to http://www.mytopo.com/products/hunt-...e.cfm?state=CO and find the unit you are interested in based on Stats. Just eyeball it for the amount of public land it has and also look for possible access issues.
                        7. Go to http://wildlife.state.co.us/Hunting/...tatistics.aspx. In here you can find how many elk are in an area. how many archers hunt it and their success. Be careful not to use just success as that number can be off for the DIY hunter. Some units have a lot of private and outfitted hunters which up the success rate while the DIY hunter's success is dismal in comparison.
                        8. So now you have a handful of OTC units where there is a healthy heard, where the # of hunters/ elk is low, where there is a lot of public land and what the general success rate for those archers is.

                        Now use Google Earth or other mapping software with aerial and topo layers to find places that look Elky. High north facing benches and benches at the heads of drainages in timber off major trails is generally what you are looking for. Next find a way to get in there while keeping in mind that you have to get 200# out of there as well. Be ready to change your plan and have maps to with you to do so.

                        This year in Wyoming we no more than a 1/2 mile from camp, bugled and got on a bull. My buddy shot him. This guy was about mid way down the mountain on a creek drainage bench. I had a close call with a bull in the same area the same day. I had in my mind the Bulls were on top at the heads of the drainages so we hunted up there only to find old sign. I finally got it thru my skull to get the map out and scout areas with the same dynamic as the bulls we encountered on the first day. Yes it worked. Point is to use guidelines but let the Elk tell you where they want to be.
                        Great post right here. ^^^^^

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                          "44 has alot of access roads so that I could get from one area to the other in my truck, then spike camp from there, same thing in 444." I smile...when you get back you'll understand why. You can't comprehend the magnitude of effort it takes to get into the mountains until you actually do it.

                          First off, the 20% success rate in 44/444 is for all weapons. If you look at just archery it is 8% and less than 6% on Bulls. That's not awful and about middle of the pack for OTC success. The heard size is small for a fairly large area. Your Elk/Archer ratio in that DAU about 4/1...In SW CO and the Flat Tops the ratio is 9/1 or more. No one stat will give you the entire picture.

                          Next step is go email or PM anyone online that has mentioned 44/444 online. There are a lot of folks that make posts about info on a specific unit then never come back a give their success.

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                              Several States have released their 2012 Hunting Guides

                              New Mexico- As discussed odds for Non-res DIY will be lower this year. No Cow Elk for non-res. $65 refundable app fee for non-res. Undrawn Outfitter pool tags go to Residents.


                              Utah(Draft)- Very Similar to 2011. $65 non-refundable License required to Apply but is valid for 1 year from the day you buy so you can usually get 2 years of Apps from one License. Added several good Elk units to the non-resident Premium entry if anyone has a lot of points. UT's dates for Archery Elk are early and end middle of Sept before the rut really kicks in. For this reason UT is not really known for archery Elk. The ML and early Rifle dates are in the heat of the rut but the odds are horrible unless you are at max points.


                              Arizona- Archery dates are fantastic this year. If you have max points this would be a good year to apply and pray for a wet spring. Also note that if you are NOT in the max point pool you have no chance to draw in the historically "Top" units. AZ Elk is a long term investment. AZ requires a $151.25 hunting license to apply plus $7.50 per app/bonus point. The rumor is AZ will finally have their online app system up this year.


                              Wyoming- Very similar to 2011. WY is a great Elk State. When you draw a tag in WY you draw for all seasons which is different from all other western states. This gives you the ability to archery hunt and if unsuccessful, return to chase them with a rifle. The draw system is relatively young and has not had enough time to shake out all those guys that got in on the ground floor. WY does have a random draw which allows for even 0 point folks a shot at a lot of the best units. WY Elk app period is from 1/1-1/31.


                              MT, NV, ID & CO are still pending.

                              If anyone has questions on any of the state app processes I would be happy to help.

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                                Well I got a few 5k and 10k trails marked out by the house. Time to break out the trekking poles and start getting ready.

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