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Changes to NR licenses in NM

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    #16
    Originally posted by Dave_ View Post
    Very true, But those federal lands are not there for the purpose of big game hunting. You can still go out an hike, backpack, fish, grouse/small game, hunt, scout, along with countless other recreational and commercial interests.
    I agree and understand that point. Its when certain activities are artificially restricted that it becomes an issue. Wilderness use in Wyoming is a perfect example.

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      #17
      Originally posted by Dave_ View Post
      I never said NR weren't getting screwed. Just saying what would change. It would definitely lower odds of being drawn. I wish I could draw NM more but if I was a resident who couldn't draw my home state I would be ****** too. As someone said earlier states are responsible for managing wildlife within their borders for the trust and benefit of their resident. We are fortunate we can hunt as NRs.

      I wish they would limit unit wide LO tags and put limits on who landowners can sell too. Then put more of those tags back in the main pool.

      Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
      Its all arbitrary boundaries on who controls what and is inconsistent at that. Which just proves its a matter of incentives and controls. At the end of the day, as a US resident paying for federal lands Id like more access to hunt those lands, beyond just hiking and fishing. Nothing other than the way its always been done keeps the land in federal hands and wildlife in state hands (expect when the government wants to intervene like with grizz and wolf). Under the current system, residents are of course always incentivized to keep NRs out or make them pay much higher fees or use outfitters. That doesn't mean it has to stay that way. For instance why is a NR from a different state treated the same as a non US citizen for these states? I think Alaska is the only one to even differentiate non US citizens.

      I will say the funniest is when a R complains about a crowded trailhead and wants to cut NR tag numbers. It's still the same total amount of tags being issued!

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        #18
        Originally posted by Texans42 View Post
        It's an additional screwing for NR. Especially if they also do away with Unit wide tags.

        You may think it's going up to 10%, but you are losing 4-5% what was essentially NR tags (16% =NR TAGS)to this residents. You will have also 1000’s of more applications in the NR POOL that was in the outfitter pool. Odds will go way down.

        Residents to outfitter pool was insignificant, you have better odds 99% in the res pool
        Fair point but I doubt it will be one for one. Im sure some folks wont go unless its outfitted. May just further drive up the LO tag fees.

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          #19
          Originally posted by quackadikt View Post
          Not necessarily just small LO’s get unit wide tags.

          For folks that don’t want to pay an outfitter, doing away with the outfitter pool is huge. The state will make more money off of applications, and it could honestly help outfitters in the grand scheme of things. More tags draw by NR means more potential clients.


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          “Most” the bigger ranches in essential units normally do ranch only tags because they get way more tags.


          And no it won't help outfitters or NR. You are losing 6% of tags right off the bat to the resident pool. And if the cancel E plus program that even more tags to resident pool.

          Your application costs are the same in Outfitter pool As they would be if you applied in Res or NR respectively. I don't for see a huge jump NR applicantions because outfitter pool went away. Grand scheme it's more applications now for less tags.

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            #20
            Originally posted by tex8569 View Post
            Fair point but I doubt it will be one for one. Im sure some folks wont go unless its outfitted. May just further drive up the LO tag fees.
            They arent doing away with outfitters, just a dedicated pool. Same people that put in the outfitter pool aren't going away. They will just move to NR Pool and now compete against NR. When they draw, they will still hire an outfitter, it's no different other then don't need a signed outfitter contract to apply.

            Essentially outfitter pool is now completing against NR Pool for same number of tags that use to be in outfitter pool.

            NR Pool as seen in this thread thinks they gained tags so better odds, but what they really gained was an exponential number of applications


            It's a huge loose loose for NR’s, they just lost tags and gain exponential application competition

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              #21
              I am guessing this proposal would(if passed) not come into play until next year at the earliest?

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                #22
                I believe it says April 1, 2022 it would take affect.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by ladrones View Post
                  guide, outfitter and landowner welfare has been a major problem that has needed to be addressed for a long time now.
                  y u p

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Texans42 View Post
                    “Most” the bigger ranches in essential units normally do ranch only tags because they get way more tags.


                    And no it won't help outfitters or NR. You are losing 6% of tags right off the bat to the resident pool. And if the cancel E plus program that even more tags to resident pool.

                    Your application costs are the same in Outfitter pool As they would be if you applied in Res or NR respectively. I don't for see a huge jump NR applicantions because outfitter pool went away. Grand scheme it's more applications now for less tags.

                    I’ll bet a dollar to a doughnut NR apps go up a decent amount.

                    And I know several large ranches in 16a, 16c, 13, etc that get UW tags.

                    If they cancel the Eplus, those extra tags go into the tag pool( minus cow tags) which are going to increase the number of tags in both pools.

                    This outfitter welfare has needed to go for some time.


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by quackadikt View Post
                      I’ll bet a dollar to a doughnut NR apps go up a decent amount.

                      And I know several large ranches in 16a, 16c, 13, etc that get UW tags.

                      If they cancel the Eplus, those extra tags go into the tag pool( minus cow tags) which are going to increase the number of tags in both pools.

                      This outfitter welfare has needed to go for some time.


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                      I know several large ranches too that go unit wide, but they are micro percentage of the ranches around the state. In this case it's better for large ranches for us to go unit wide because it opens them up to the public. For ever 10 tags you put back into the pool. It's only one non-resident going in. Where as before 9/10 of those tags where being bought by non-residents. Also you are about to see a huge number of deperdation tags, if you can't buy landowner tolerance you get depredation tags. The Sec Of Agriculture will outrule NMFG on depredation

                      NR tags application may up tick some because some may think it's increased odds but it's not. It's significantly decreased odds right of the bat.

                      Y'all can project at LO and outfitters all you want, end of the day if NM passes these, NM will Significantly decrease over all non-resident opportunity by a large percentage.
                      Last edited by Texans42; 02-02-2021, 09:09 PM.

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                        #26
                        Bad news

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                          #27
                          When they lowered the NR quota years ago most I know said screw it and they go hunting anyway, yeah its poaching but when the states laws become ludicrously slanted against NR your going to get this, they don't have the manpower to enforce these rules anyway. IMO if NM had more reasonable big game laws they would have less poaching.

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                            #28
                            I've got a friend that lives in Northern NM. He's in a decent elk unit but poor for deer. I put in for a deer tag four or five years ago- I think there were 6 non-resident applicants for 5 tags. There were 34 non-resident applicants in 2020. Demand for non-resident tags continues to climb.

                            Unit 34 Elk rifle had 955 non-res apps for 9 tags (6% of 150). The outfitter pool had 577 (I don't have the breakdown of how many res vrs non-res). With the 10% proposal, tag allocation would increase to 15, but it not likely to improve draw odds if the folks from the outfitter pool move over.

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                              #29
                              Man this seems incredibly complicated. I would love to hunt out west but trying to navigate this hurts my head.

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by Etxbuckman View Post
                                Man this seems incredibly complicated. I would love to hunt out west but trying to navigate this hurts my head.

                                Same. We just went landowner tags with an outfitter for this reason.

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