Bare shaft tuning question

[andreww5001]

I am struggling trying to bareshaft tune my bow. I went to the bow shop and tuned up my bow. When I left, I had sent a bare shaft thru paper three times in a row and achieved a pretty good bullet hole at 5 steps. I’m trying to build a new set of arrows but now every arrow I shoot into my foam target is pretty severely tail right. I shot thru paper again at my house and no matter which direction I orient the nock, I am always nock right tear. I can’t figure out whether the tune is my bow or an under spined arrow. My arrows were built using archers advantage software and they are supposed to be perfectly spined for my specs.

I then backed up to 30 yards and tried grouping with a fletched arrow. It groups close (four inches) but the nock is severely right into the target. The flight of the arrow just isn’t good enough out of my bow.

What steps would you take to move forward? What would you do to remedy the problem?


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[bowhuntntxn]

turn the weight down 1 full rotation and see if it gets better. that will tell you if you are under spined. also check your rest to make sure it is tight and didnt move on you.

if you are under, you can add weight to the back of your arrow or cut the length down if you can.

[andreww5001]

I’ll turn the weight down on my bow tomorrow and check if that remedies anything.

Might be a dumb question, but does adding weight on the back of arrow have the opposite effect of adding weight to the front? More front weight making your arrow spine more dynamic and rear weight making it less dynamic? Or am I misunderstanding your last statement?


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[muddyfuzzy]

Adding weight to the front of the arrows weakens the dynamic reaction just as adding weight to the rear stiffens it. As mentioned, turning the bow down is a good way to verify the spine reaction and a good starting point. Your problem sounds more like center shot or cam lean issue to me. You want to tune to the natural power stroke of the bow, its nock travel. Generally speaking, if the rest center shot is set properly then the adjustments for tail corrections sometimes require yoke tuning, shimming or if you have a cool system like Bowtech or Elite shifting the entire pocket angle which is really cool or top hat tuning if its a newer Mathews. What kind of rig are we talking about here?

[andreww5001]

Adding weight to the front of the arrows weakens the dynamic reaction just as adding weight to the rear stiffens it. As mentioned, turning the bow down is a good way to verify the spine reaction and a good starting point. Your problem sounds more like center shot or cam lean issue to me. You want to tune to the natural power stroke of the bow, its nock travel. Generally speaking, if the rest center shot is set properly then the adjustments for tail corrections sometimes require yoke tuning, shimming or if you have a cool system like Bowtech or Elite shifting the entire pocket angle which is really cool or top hat tuning if its a newer Mathews. What kind of rig are we talking about here?

That’s helpful info.

I am shooting a Mathews Traverse. At the bow shop we did switch out the top hats to achieve that bullet hole I described earlier. I am shooting 75 grain outserts and 100 grain tip on 300 spine Axis. In an attempt to play with the dynamic spine, I have switched that 100 grain tip to a 125, 175, and 200 grain and still could not bring the nock around significantly. I realize I was probably going the wrong way with the dynamic spine but I was just trying to make an adjustment in an obvious direction so I could over correct the other way.


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[muddyfuzzy]

Bare shaft tuning question

[emoji1662]

[SJP51]

Sounds like you are shooting a compound?

If so, did you add any electrical tape to the bare shaft to replicate the weight of vanes near the nock? It can make quite a difference to dynamic spine. Depending on brand, a 4" vane can weigh 5 to 8 grains. If you use 3 on your fletched arrows then that is a considerable spine effect.

[andreww5001]

Sounds like you are shooting a compound?

If so, did you add any electrical tape to the bare shaft to replicate the weight of vanes near the nock? It can make quite a difference to dynamic spine. Depending on brand, a 4" vane can weigh 5 to 8 grains. If you use 3 on your fletched arrows then that is a considerable spine effect.

I did not for the initial tunings. You are right, my three vains are right at 20 grains plus a lighted nock is another 22 grains so that is definitely adding some weight to it. I will try this and see if it makes a significant difference but honestly as large as some of these tears are through paper and as angled as these arrows are impacting the target, I don’t feel like I’m that close to a good tune.


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[SJP51]

I did not for the initial tunings. You are right, my three vains are right at 20 grains plus a lighted nock is another 22 grains so that is definitely adding some weight to it. I will try this and see if it makes a significant difference but honestly as large as some of these tears are through paper and as angled as these arrows are impacting the target, I don’t feel like I’m that close to a good tune.


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I mostly shoot trad. When bareshaft tuning I can tell the difference in not have 3 feathers (less than 10-gr). I imaging 42 gr has a large impact. I modeled my setup on the 3Rivers dynamic spine calculator, and a 42 gr change on the nock end changed the arrows dynamic spine by 10. That's huge!

I learned the electrical tape trick from somebody on this board. Make your bareshaft and hunting shaft weigh the same. Works great!

[kmon]

So tuned with one arrow and shooting another. Do you have the arrows it was tuned with and if so how do they shoot?

Just asking.

The turning the bow down is a good start and easy check for diagnosing the issue. I hope it was you doing the shooting at the shop for the paper tuning and not one of their techs as the shooter can make a difference as well if one torques the bow and one doesn't. I have had more than one shooter come back in saying something must have moved or changed on their setup that wound up being a little change in grip or follow through.

[andreww5001]

So tuned with one arrow and shooting another. Do you have the arrows it was tuned with and if so how do they shoot?

Just asking.

The turning the bow down is a good start and easy check for diagnosing the issue. I hope it was you doing the shooting at the shop for the paper tuning and not one of their techs as the shooter can make a difference as well if one torques the bow and one doesn't. I have had more than one shooter come back in saying something must have moved or changed on their setup that wound up being a little change in grip or follow through.

It was me that shot the bow at the shop. I also have disassembled and reassembled the arrow that the bow was tuned with. I used hot melt at the shop to set up a quick tune arrow but then got home and insert tuned all arrows and epoxied the inserts in.
It very well could have been my grip or form change. I have not been shooting my compound much lately because I’ve been working on my trad bows. The only thing I can’t figure out (if that is the case) is why I can’t replicate better arrow flight even when I’m trying to vary grip pressures and follow thru.


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[andreww5001]

So I used a fletched arrow to show you what straight is. I put a lumenok in the back and wrapped with masking tape to simulate vain weight. I also backed my bow out one turn (approx 3 pounds) and this was the result. Still a similar impact to what I’ve been getting. I might need to double check the bow tune again.



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[dustin16H]

So I used a fletched arrow to show you what straight is. I put a lumenok in the back and wrapped with masking tape to simulate vain weight. I also backed my bow out one turn (approx 3 pounds) and this was the result. Still a similar impact to what I’ve been getting. I might need to double check the bow tune again.

It looks pretty stable.

[Tom]

it does not look stable. Fletching is a parachute that adds drag and will allow the heavy end to true itself. this error can be a host of things. If you just left the shop with it tuned then I would assume that it is tuned. I would shoot the unfletched arrow more. A bad grip can do just this......just keep at it and make small changes with your grip and how you are placing the string / your hand, etc on the side of your coconut. check your form again

[NCTx Dude]

Too much facial pressure on the string at release may be a possibility