Protein vs Genetics

[Javelin]

So if a buck is a mainframe 8 he’ll always be a mainframe 8 but a healthier version on protein with the possibility of more mass

No. Deer can always add tines, but anything that happens in a deers antlers is not only due to protein. Protein is just on of many things that help deer grow larger antlers, but most importantly stay healthy and on your property. Deer need the following in this order IMO
1.age
2. High Quality food year round (protein is one part of this)
3. proper heard numbers and ratios (do you want big deer or lots of deer, hard to have both in many areas)
4. proper habitat set up in the proper arrangement
5. genetics

There is no magic pill to grow 160s, but if you do all you can to give your property everything a deer needs you will maximize the potential for the deer on your property. Since you cant change the genetics on a place that is low fence then throw it out the window and work with the other 4 and you will see a huge improvement in your deer BUT it will take 5 years or more before you really see a measurable difference in most cases.

[kyle1974]

Protein vs Genetics

I believe it can, from an epigenetic/developmental perspective. Think of it in human terms. Pregnant moms need to take care of themselves. Eat well, prenatal vitamins, no drinking, no smoking, no drugs. And look at the offspring of women who don’t do that. Babies are often unhealthily, and some have life long complications (developmental delay, autism spectrum disorder, fetal alcohol syndrome, etc.).

So it doesn’t change their genetics. Their constitutional DNA is the same at birth as it is death. The moment the sperm and the egg meet, that part is defined. What we are talking about is environmental effects.

I can see that. Development delays certainly make sense. BUT, Like you said, the DNA code is fixed. Oddly enough the feta alcohol analogy entered my mind too, I’m not sure what an equivalent would be in deer.

It makes me wonder though because as much as we feed, the pens are still dominated by bucks most of the year. We have a pen per 330 acres and I guess it isn’t enough because the does are rarely in them.

[Hogmauler]

Well said and written Kris. How many of y’all have planted fast growing fruit trees for deer? If so where did you find the trees. I checked a couple places and they seemed to be “out of stock” the couple times I checked back. And out of state as well.

[Lynn21]

Protein Will help them reach their genetic potential- Key word here is “their”. Where we r in Childress protein is now $18- $25 a bag.

[Hogmauler]

Protein Will help them reach their genetic potential- Key word here is “their”. Where we r in Childress protein is now $18- $25 a bag.

Yessir! That’s exactly why a few post back I mentioned that I only threw a couple bags in the feeder. Maybe I’ll up my game a little this next year but definitely won’t be anywhere near thousands of dollars.

[jshouse]

The second biggest component besides protein/nutrition is age. Many people see areas of the state say the hill country and assume a 120” buck is what the area genetics will allow. In reality the genetics in many areas of the state are much better that what the general consensus is.

As an example we hunt a high fenced property in Kerr county culling does and cull bucks. This ranch is 100% native Kerr county deer with no introduced genetics. They get protein from February-September. The property is not commercially hunted and most of the trophy caliber bucks end up dying of old age.

We start culling at 4.5 and the average cull is 6.5 cull deer are typically 110-130” and what we deem to be the bottom end of each age class

The ranch consistently produces(not to be read as killed) multiple bucks each year 160+ across several age classes from 5.5 to 9+ if they kill a trophy caliber buck it is typically not till 8+ to allow as many breeding seasons as possible. Biggest buck killed to date was a 199” typical for an area with bad genetics

its amazing isnt it. let'em grow folks. except the spikes.

[Hogmauler]

There’s articles that even dispute that J House. I had a spike come by me last week that looked like a really young deer. His spikes were six inches long. I let him walk thinking I’d give him a year.
I’d like the biologist to chime in here regarding antler growth to age. Perfect example: the six inch spike that walked by me. Will he fork next year?

[PoppinPiggies]

Well said and written Kris. How many of y’all have planted fast growing fruit trees for deer? If so where did you find the trees. I checked a couple places and they seemed to be “out of stock” the couple times I checked back. And out of state as well.

Careful with the fruit trees if you get a lot of grasshoppers, they've almost always wiped ours out after we have planted

[Hogmauler]

Wow. So they never came back?

[jshouse]

There’s articles that even dispute that J House. I had a spike come by me last week that looked like a really young deer. His spikes were six inches long. I let him walk thinking I’d give him a year.
I’d like the biologist to chime in here regarding antler growth to age. Perfect example: the six inch spike that walked by me. Will he fork next year?

i partly say it in jest. i know there are studies that show spikes can turn in to nice deer, but if i am looking to skim mouths or fill the freezer and i can choose between a spike and a 6pt thats the same age, i would take the spike based on percentages.

that being said, i hunt small low fence places and we dont shoot anything unless its going on the wall so every young deer gets a pass from me.

we use protein, sweet feed, rice bran, applce corn, whatever we can get them to eat to try to keep them on our side of the fence as much as possible. sometimes it works and sometimes our neighbor kills bigazz 4yo deer 3 years in a row.

[hog_down]

How many of y’all have planted fast growing fruit trees for deer? If so where did you find the trees. I checked a couple places and they seemed to be “out of stock” the couple times I checked back. And out of state as well.

I planted Mexican plum, escarpment cherry, white oak, lacey oak, chinkapin oak, and Monterrey oak at my place in the Hill Country. Check your local nurseries first, then reach out further if you need to.

Online stores:

https://www.nativnurseries.com/

https://whitetailhillchestnuts.com/c...gaAnPDEALw_wcB

https://www.wildtree.co/shop/

Get a soil sample and send it off to see what the pH is, and what minerals you are lacking, and that way you can determine what to plant. Also, need to figure out a way to water the trees or they will die, especially in a drought. Ask around and see what other trees are native to your area. For example: don't plant a chestnut tree in west Texas, it ain't going to live.

And yes, the grasshoppers almost wiped my trees out too, I had to spray Bifen to keep them away.

[PoppinPiggies]

Wow. So they never came back?

Nope and if they did the grasshoppers got them the next year. So far we have found they don't seem to like live oak leaves... definitely interesting in trying the Bifen stuff mentioned above though

[slayer]

Did I read this correctly? You are feeding protein to get more meat out of your deer?

Bigger bodies, healthier deer. They survive and recover faster from the rut and yes, side affect, I get more meat when I kill one. . .

[elgato]

So if a buck is a mainframe 8 he’ll always be a mainframe 8 but a healthier version on protein with the possibility of more mass

You might find this video interesting regarding antler growth and the idea 'once an 8 always an 8'

https://youtu.be/v2BUx4xhWjI

[kyle1974]

I agree %100.
Every post you have on this thread is correct in my opinion about the subject.
Thanks for posting.

In my opinion what people think they’re seeing with protein improving genetics on low fence ground could just be the difference of managing what’s killed better compared to past managers.
I like to believe in protein doing good things when you have genetics. I believe in that situation it works.

I would say this year, the amount of feed that we put out saved some deer from dying in the drought. Of course we hope that antler development follows, but this being one of the worst droughts in the area's history, there's no doubt that the feeding took pressure off the browse and kept a few deer alive.