East Tx vs Hill Country Deer Debate

[lovemylegacy]

Oops

[lovemylegacy]

This should help some. it is pretty complex ,deer have a wide variety of choices from region to region.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_bk_w7000_1675_07_11.pdf

https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_rp_w7000_1017.pdf

https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_rp_w7000_0193.pdf

https://agrilife.org/wildlife2/files...West-Texas.pdf

Good info, thanx. I was really surprised at the percentage of grass they consumed. Out of necessity I would presume.

Great thread

[Landrover]

Good read and I saw nothing for others to get butt hurt about. I have owned a 50 and 40 acre place in East Texas for over 20 years. I stopped hunting them in two different counties 15 plus years ago. To small, too many other hunters, illegal hunting, majority of pics at night, etc. I went to Ozona for 3 years........way too far and nothing special about it "for me!" I have been in hill country for at least 12 or 13 years thanks to another TBHer!. Never monsters but 5-20 deer EVERY single sit no matter what timeframe.....which is as much fun as a man can have with his clothes on. MLD is always 20 plus tags over the last 5 years. Never more than 4 hunters besides a few 4-H kids that TPWD brings out to shoot does. Usually only 2 or 3 take a deer on the 650 acre place........mucho fun and Fredericksberg is 15 minutes to downtown........Tyler is definititly nice these days also so we are excited about the purchase! Yes, we have killed a few 130's and one Booner in hill country. By far most bucks taken are 125" to 130".....which aint shabby for the area. We shoot as many does as we want to clean however......we never fill the 20 plus MLD tags, but actually try. YES, the overall body size and antlers are smaller in the hill country but the numbers are definitely OFF THE CHARTs which is pure entertainment!!!
NOW.....fast forward those 12 to 13 years in central Texas......I have expanded my land holdings in Smith County (edge of pineywoods as someone mentioned) and will start to make this place work for bowhunting! I will keep my hill country lease for at least the next 3 years but obviously have a ton of work in front of me to get this place up to par.......so zero rush to bowhunt it! Deer and hogs are there and have seen them consistently for 23 years of ownership. Deer on the hoof are easily bigger and the dark horns are beautiful. Hogs rub the heck outta my pines but they will be HIT HARD for the next year or two.....real hard!!! I have a 50 acre clearcut on it now from the previous owner. I may only put 40 back into pine production. The rest in food plot of some type. I need to thin my original 40 acre pine plantation immediately as I am 4 or 5 years overdue. That will also open up sunlight which will be a natural food plot off the bat as noted multiple times. The two acre pond once repaired will surely help keep all critters close. Multiple cans of purple paint will be used with NO TRESPASSING signage, new low fencing (3 or 4 strand barb wire) and cameras will be bought come spring 2023 when everything goes on sale. Not sure what the guys/gals that have experienced success in MY area are doing but I am totally OPEN to learning and then implementing the suggestions. The goal is 140" class deer consistently......if bigger happens I will consider it a bonus. Not sure if i can buy the 23 acres next to me but hopefully I can negotiate with the landowner since they moved to Tennessee........they are waaaaay to expensive right now. Yes, willing to do food plots, feed all year, and put in feeder pens where it makes sense. Bottom line, 165 acres in Smith County isn't huge but it is better than the lonely 40 in Smith or the 50 i have in Bowie County. Open to suggestions, insight, wildlife plan or even someone saying dont waste my time and stay in the hill country permanently.

That my man is an age old question that is still to be answered.
SETx in my opinion has better quality than Edwards Plateau area.
S Tx, thats a different animal altogether.

Agreed!

Calvin if I remember right the soil health/PH have to be in line for those numbers to be attainable. I'm sure y'all all have listened to Dr Harper, Bronson Strickland, and Marcus lashley on the MSU deer study videos. It's amazing what sunlight can do and TSI can do.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk

Not familiar with any of them but will check them out asap!!!

[trophy8]

Yeah I get that Smart, so why are the Whitetails small vs a large Axis eating the same stuff. Different subspecies of Whitetail? I have hunted the EP and shot full grown doe and they may be 80lbs live weight. Friends of mine hunt there, they experience the same thing. Not knocking them, just what I have seen. The cattle are butterball fat.

On my old lease in Mason we killed many mature bucks from 180-200 lbs. All tiny racks

Herd and habitat management is key.

Now I’m waiting on Bob to come throw his BS flag lmao

[trophy8]

I'm no biologist. Genetics and nutrition/protein levels in actual food available is my guess.... when say compared to SoTx.

We have two distinct size deer on our place. Deer that max out weight wise (with age) like a hill country deer and deer more like west Texas deer that push 185-190lbs . Luckily they both can throw solid horns....on the flip side they both can throw trash.

We saw the exact same thing. Like 2 types of deer. And antler development mattered not due to body size. Our highest scoring deer weighed 140 lbs live weight at 6 years old. Most huge bodied(for our area) were average bucks.

[Gumbo Man]

I'm no biologist. Genetics and nutrition/protein levels in actual food available is my guess.... when say compared to SoTx.

We have two distinct size deer on our place. Deer that max out weight wise (with age) like a hill country deer and deer more like west Texas deer that push 185-190lbs . Luckily they both can throw solid horns....on the flip side they both can throw trash.

I was in Dimmit County( Carrizo Springs) for 8 years and we also had 2 different size deer on our place. One was your typical dark brush country deer and the other was a smaller reddish color that didn’t get as big bodied as the darker deer. They resembled deer from the Kennedy ranch. When judging antlers you really needed to pay attention to which variety it was.

[lovemylegacy]

On my old lease in Mason we killed many mature bucks from 180-200 lbs. All tiny racks

Herd and habitat management is key.

Now I’m waiting on Bob to come throw his BS flag lmao

Ha! Agree with the management part, key for sure

[Gumbo Man]

Good read and I saw nothing for others to get butt hurt about. I have owned a 50 and 40 acre place in East Texas for over 20 years. I stopped hunting them in two different counties 15 plus years ago. To small, too many other hunters, illegal hunting, majority of pics at night, etc. I went to Ozona for 3 years........way too far and nothing special about it "for me!" I have been in hill country for at least 12 or 13 years thanks to another TBHer!. Never monsters but 5-20 deer EVERY single sit no matter what timeframe.....which is as much fun as a man can have with his clothes on. MLD is always 20 plus tags over the last 5 years. Never more than 4 hunters besides a few 4-H kids that TPWD brings out to shoot does. Usually only 2 or 3 take a deer on the 650 acre place........mucho fun and Fredericksberg is 15 minutes to downtown........Tyler is definititly nice these days also so we are excited about the purchase! Yes, we have killed a few 130's and one Booner in hill country. By far most bucks taken are 125" to 130".....which aint shabby for the area. We shoot as many does as we want to clean however......we never fill the 20 plus MLD tags, but actually try. YES, the overall body size and antlers are smaller in the hill country but the numbers are definitely OFF THE CHARTs which is pure entertainment!!!
NOW.....fast forward those 12 to 13 years in central Texas......I have expanded my land holdings in Smith County (edge of pineywoods as someone mentioned) and will start to make this place work for bowhunting! I will keep my hill country lease for at least the next 3 years but obviously have a ton of work in front of me to get this place up to par.......so zero rush to bowhunt it! Deer and hogs are there and have seen them consistently for 23 years of ownership. Deer on the hoof are easily bigger and the dark horns are beautiful. Hogs rub the heck outta my pines but they will be HIT HARD for the next year or two.....real hard!!! I have a 50 acre clearcut on it now from the previous owner. I may only put 40 back into pine production. The rest in food plot of some type. I need to thin my original 40 acre pine plantation immediately as I am 4 or 5 years overdue. That will also open up sunlight which will be a natural food plot off the bat as noted multiple times. The two acre pond once repaired will surely help keep all critters close. Multiple cans of purple paint will be used with NO TRESPASSING signage, new low fencing (3 or 4 strand barb wire) and cameras will be bought come spring 2023 when everything goes on sale. Not sure what the guys/gals that have experienced success in MY area are doing but I am totally OPEN to learning and then implementing the suggestions. The goal is 140" class deer consistently......if bigger happens I will consider it a bonus. Not sure if i can buy the 23 acres next to me but hopefully I can negotiate with the landowner since they moved to Tennessee........they are waaaaay to expensive right now. Yes, willing to do food plots, feed all year, and put in feeder pens where it makes sense. Bottom line, 165 acres in Smith County isn't huge but it is better than the lonely 40 in Smith or the 50 i have in Bowie County. Open to suggestions, insight, wildlife plan or even someone saying dont waste my time and stay in the hill country permanently.


Agreed!

Not familiar with any of them but will check them out asap!!!

Oscar you might want to try planting Iron and Clay Cowpeas in the spring. Easy to grow and high in protein and fairly drought tolerant. Once the deer figure it’s edible it’s game on. But needs to be at least 4 or 5 acres if you have a relatively high deer density so it can reach 3 leaf stage without being wiped out.

[tps7742]

FYI
On the purple paint.the last few years I will take the color purple I need to a paint store. I have them mix me a color in oil base and use a big brush or small roller. Done for years. And much cheaper than the spray cans not that this is an issue in the big scheme of things. Take a ladder to put your signage up high so the low life’s can’t reach it.

[txtrophy85]

I was in Dimmit County( Carrizo Springs) for 8 years and we also had 2 different size deer on our place. One was your typical dark brush country deer and the other was a smaller reddish color that didn’t get as big bodied as the darker deer. They resembled deer from the Kennedy ranch. When judging antlers you really needed to pay attention to which variety it was.

We had a ranch in Batesville and had two types of deer…normal south Texas deer and then we had these deer that would look like a racehorse….they were a foot and a half longer and 20-30 lbs heavier.

Maybe 5% of the bucks taken were these thoroughbred type deer.

[HogHunter34]

I just read a good article on East Tx deer management
Two of the keys things mentioned were age by allowing bucks to reach 4.5-6.5 age range maturity
Supplemental feeding but also mention of mineral supplement during antler development March - August
Good spring plots mentioned were iron clay cowpeas, Alyce clover & arrowleaf clover
Also key was keeping numbers down to avoid over capacity for the area (too many deer per acre)

[Voodoo]

“ less natural food sources to sustain them?”

On first glance one could arrive at this conclusion but its absolutely false. Not only is there an abundance of food for whitetail, there is abundance for all other natural species of animals, the exotics…and pigs.

Probably the cleanest water in Texas can be found in the Hill Country if you know where to look.

Even the largest Pine nut of all pine trees in North America exist in the Hill Country. Explorer Cabeza de Vaca's route was traced through these pines.

The Blue Oak has the best acorns on the planet, low in tannins, best for making flour.

Fruit of Madrones, persimmon, juniper berries, agarita, plums, so forth and so on…

You cannot starve to death in Hill Country.

The game also retreat to areas where frankly humans either cannot get to or don’t frequent.

[Voodoo]

We had a ranch in Batesville and had two types of deer…normal south Texas deer and then we had these deer that would look like a racehorse….they were a foot and a half longer and 20-30 lbs heavier.

Maybe 5% of the bucks taken were these thoroughbred type deer.

Yes, several subspecies

[Muddy Bud]

I was in Dimmit County( Carrizo Springs) for 8 years and we also had 2 different size deer on our place. One was your typical dark brush country deer and the other was a smaller reddish color that didn’t get as big bodied as the darker deer. They resembled deer from the Kennedy ranch. When judging antlers you really needed to pay attention to which variety it was.

I agree with this. Hunted in Refugio County for a couple years and those were the hardest deer to judge age wise. You had some good South Texas Genetics mixed in with some coastal marsh deer. So you could be looking at a a nice 140” deer that you might think is 3 but then talk to the guys at camp and find they been seeing this thing for five years. Been in Jim Hogg County now for the last 5 yrs and our pre rut weights push 230s.

[txtimetravler]

I hunt in hays county…we had south Tx genetics and hill country genetics on an old lease.
Shot an 8 pointer that was a heavy weight compared to a 6 pointer next to him….thought I did good with a ‘cull’. Lol
Looked at his teeth and talked to lease members….only to find out he was a 2 year old.

Apparently in the depression, a guy was buying up small farms going broke. Fast forward, that ranch started transporting STX deer into their huge ranch in the ‘80’s.

It was unreal. One lease member shot a hoss….prolly a 150inch buck but it had stickers all over it. No telling what it would have become if left one more year