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Hill Country Deer vs. South Texas Deer?

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    #31
    One area has quality dirt and the other has limestone rock. There’s a reason the deer in Iowa are huge - great dirt.

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      #32
      Interesting thread...opinios all over the place.......following

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        #33
        Originally posted by Sika View Post
        It can’t be nutrition alone. The deer in the golden triangle are just bigger skeletally. Their bones and skulls are larger. Deer in the Edwards plateau and Gulf coast are just smaller, skeletally.
        Bone structure is a product of nutrition over multiple generations. There was a great "common garden" experiment done in South Dakota that addressed this.

        Few studies of the ecology of white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus) have been conducted in South Dakota. Despite one subspecies of white-tailed deer (O. v. dakotensis) that inhabits the state, much variation occurs in growth and survival of the species. Furthermore, little is known about winter nutritional requirements of white-tailed deer during severe winters in South Dakota. The objectives of this study were: 1) To model antler and morphological characteristics of captive white-tailed deer while investigating a maternal effect, which potentially influences growth of white-tailed deer from the Black Hills of South Dakota; 2) To determine mortality and habitat use of white-tailed deer fawns in the southern Black Hills, South Dakota; and 3) To evaluate pelleted soy hulls as a lure forage for minimizing winter depredation by deer in South Dakota. Antler and morphological characteristics from 3 cohorts of captive South Dakota white-tailed deer were documented from spring 1997 through fall 2005. Deer were maintained at the Wildlife and Fisheries Research Facility at South Dakota State University. Sixty-one fawns were born during this study and averaged 3.6 kg at birth. Daily growth rates of fawns (pre-weaning) averaged 0.16 kg. At sixteen months-of-age deer weighed an average of 66.0 kg. Yearling females averaged 61.1 kg and yearling males averaged 70.0 kg. Males reached peak body mass at 78 months-of-age and averaged 112.2 kg. Mean peak body mass of first generation, east river (ER1) males was 36.9 kg heavier than first generation, Black Hills (BH1) males. Predictive equations for total body mass were (kg) = -232.530 + 0.565*neck circumference (cm) + 1.137*chest circumference (cm) + 5.620*nose-to-eye length (cm) + 0.436*total body length (cm) for males and -98.513 + 2.516*total body length (cm) for females. Peak antler development occurred at 78 months-of-age for most males and averaged 142 1/8 non-typical Boone and Crocket score. Gross non-typical scores differed (P = 0.020) between cohorts. It is likely that deer from the Black Hills are affected by a negative maternal effect. Second generation males have acquired 50% of the difference between first generation males in terms of body weight and 43% of the difference in antler scores. Seventy-eight fawn white-tailed deer were captured and fitted with motion sensing radio collars from 1999 – 2002. Fawns were captured through ground searches using doe behavior as an indicator of recent parturition. Total annual mortality was 65% with 59% of mortality occurring summer-fall (1 June through 31 October) and
        Last edited by Longue Carabine; 12-24-2020, 03:44 PM.

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          #34
          Plants with 20+% protein, larger safer areas to reach maturity, and better longer established management and feeding practices.

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            #35
            Originally posted by GARY View Post
            Cows seem to also do better in South Texas grazing than Hill Country....
            The places I hunted on in the hill country the cows done really well they seemed to get wider than my pickup

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              #36
              Originally posted by stx View Post
              The brush country has wayyy more to provide than just mesquite beans as seen in the link below. Also south Texas has generally larger tracts of land that can be managed.

              https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/...1675_07_11.pdf

              Crazy to see beauty berry is a first choice browse in STX


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                #37
                Originally posted by panhandlehunter View Post
                Herd management and predators. Lots of the hill country had been or are currently devoid of predators due to goat farming.
                This is my opinion as well.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by stx View Post
                  The brush country has wayyy more to provide than just mesquite beans as seen in the link below. Also south Texas has generally larger tracts of land that can be managed.

                  https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/...1675_07_11.pdf
                  This

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                    #39
                    I generally always just thought it was the soil fertility providing in high nutritional value to all the browse they have down south. Great to hear everyone’s opinions tho


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                      #40
                      If you have a big place in the hill country and you can let the deer mature they get big. All you need is age,water and food and they will be just as good as south Texas bucks. You have to manage the place shoot the right culls and keep the numbers in check with the does as well.

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                        #41
                        Originally posted by Grant2 View Post
                        If you have a big place in the hill country and you can let the deer mature they get big. All you need is age,water and food and they will be just as good as south Texas bucks. You have to manage the place shoot the right culls and keep the numbers in check with the does as well.

                        So you think you could have 5,000 acres in South Texas and 5,000 acres in the Hill Country and produce the same quality of deer on each place?


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                          #42
                          We have a larger track of land in the hill country and we grow some solid bucks but cannot seem to break over 170 class bucks but we simply have way too many deer so we are really trying to get our numbers down.

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by Longue Carabine View Post
                            IF population is in fact lower in South Texas, then my guesses are water is much more of a limiting factor in South Texas compared to the hill country. Predation may be higher in remote South Texas as well
                            What about East Texas? I would argue just as big, if not bigger deer can been found near Toledo Bend and Rayburn than down South. And plenty of water can be found in East Texas for obvious reasons.

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                              #44
                              It’s all about nutrition and enough groceries to go around. More ranches in south Texas feed protein than hill country ranches.

                              They hill country is relatively sterile compared to native south Texas brush. This leads to bigger deer. The subspecies argument has been made but unfortunately it doesent hold water because deer north of the Llano Uplift get pretty darn big bodied and antlered as well.

                              The gulf coast deer is in fact a different deer ( Avery island subspecies ) but a genetically there is no difference between a deer shot in Kerr county and one shot in La Salle.

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                                #45
                                ...
                                Last edited by PondPopper; 12-25-2020, 12:39 AM.

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