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    Originally posted by billythefish View Post
    Lol I am capable of reading an analogy- Im saying it is a crap one.
    In your story one woman WANTED her baby aborted, the other had her baby shot.
    Not really...you just have to take your blinders off first - the woman & the baby are separate in both examples, but only viewed as such in one of the scenarios:

    EX #1:
    Doctor = is referred to as the physician & can legally kill the baby...
    Baby = is referred to as the "fetus" & considered part of the woman's body...
    Mother = mother & child are viewed as one individual under the law in this example, thus it is the mother's choice what to do with "her body"...

    EX #2:
    Killer = is referred to as the perpetrator & can be put on trial for murder...
    Baby = is referred to as the victim of a crime...
    Mother = mother & child are viewed as two separate individuals under the law in this example, thus constitutes TWO murder charges...


    What is the difference in the role of the baby in the two examples?
    Why is the death of a baby in one scenario murder & not in the other?

    Comment


      Originally posted by billythefish View Post
      Lol I am capable of reading an analogy- Im saying it is a crap one.
      In your story one woman WANTED her baby aborted, the other had her baby shot.
      No sir, I think you are missing the point. The point being, is the willful murder of a child illegal or not, is it immoral or not, etc. In this scenario one baby is killed by a stranger and the other by it's mother. Should it matter if the killer is a stranger or its own mother? The bottom line is that a healthy baby was murdered. Why is one illegal but the other is considered a civil right? The only justification in one's eyes would be the right to choose argument which is bs. In that case it's perfectly legal for the mother to murder an unborn child but otherwise a crime.

      Comment


        Originally posted by billythefish View Post
        Lol I am capable of reading an analogy- Im saying it is a crap one.
        In your story one woman WANTED her baby aborted, the other had her baby shot.
        Capable of reading? Maybe. Understanding, not so much.

        Comment


          Originally posted by billythefish View Post
          Lol I am capable of reading an analogy- Im saying it is a crap one.
          In your story one woman WANTED her baby aborted, the other had her baby shot.
          You are missing the entire point of what the law does...the fact there was a planned abortion has nothing to do with it. Forget the whole analogy BS. Where are we now & I'm talking about only about the women who WANT to have their babies.

          They were discussing a very recent case where a pregnant woman @ 5mos was stabbed to death...both mother & child died. Before the NY law, the killer would be charged with 2 deaths & most certainly would be in any other state even if it was DWI car crash death. Pregnant = mother & child!! 2 HUMANS!!

          Now in the state of NY, the child in the womb counts for nothing in the event of a murdered pregnant woman up until the moment of actual birth. Drunk driver kills your pregnant wife while on the way to delivery killing 3 adults & one baby in the ambulance & the child is nothing more than tissue mass to the sate of NY. You can try to defend that if you wish, but no retort you type could be justified if you agree with this new law.

          Perspective??

          Comment


            Originally posted by rockyraider View Post
            No sir, I think you are missing the point. The point being, is the willful murder of a child illegal or not, is it immoral or not, etc. In this scenario one baby is killed by a stranger and the other by it's mother. Should it matter if the killer is a stranger or its own mother? The bottom line is that a healthy baby was murdered. Why is one illegal but the other is considered a civil right? The only justification in one's eyes would be the right to choose argument which is bs. In that case it's perfectly legal for the mother to murder an unborn child but otherwise a crime.
            I understand the point clearly- it is a crap analogy because it can be argued against very easily. Hence I said it is a crap analogy...not that I failed to understand it

            Comment


              Originally posted by billythefish View Post
              I understand the point clearly- it is a crap analogy because it can be argued against very easily. Hence I said it is a crap analogy...not that I failed to understand it
              ....then please do? I'm curious to hear it. Seriously.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Crazy Horse View Post
                ....then please do? I'm curious to hear it. Seriously.
                X2 but I doubt we will hear it.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Razrbk89 View Post
                  I think I understand what you were trying to say, but I was raised to put my money where my mouth is. The way people are these days, I’m sure many would think holding themselves to that standard of responsibility IS absurd.

                  If you’re adamantly opposed to something, but unwilling to take action to correct it, then you’re a hypocrite.

                  hy·poc·ri·sy
                  /həˈpäkrəsē/
                  noun
                  the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

                  Doesn’t mean you have to agree with abortion, I sure don’t. I’m just not going to cast any stones from where I’m standing.
                  In your twisted scenario you should not be advocating that abortion be legal unless you are participating in killing babies, true?

                  I believe your views on this are so skewed that nobody will be able to make you understand that the bio parents are the ones that should be responsible for the choices they have made. You posted the definition of hypocrisy, in this case if you say you are against abortion then participate or encourage someone to have an abortion you would be a hypocrite. Adopting, or being 'in-line' for adoption simply has nothing to do with a personal opinion on the matter.

                  In fact, your stated objection to abortion and stated tolerance for the practice may, in fact, make you the hypocrite, no?
                  Last edited by -HIC-; 02-12-2019, 06:06 PM.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by stickerpatch59
                    hmmmm, come to think of it; there is one in particular that we haven't heard from in a while.
                    I am not a regular over in this section because I typically dont like to talk politics around the campfire. However, over the last year I have realized that you need to engage anywhere you can. This thread really has shocked me, I did not expect to see some of these statements from sportsmen. In fact, there are a few posters that I would not even care to have a friendly debate with because of statements in this thread.

                    As someone mentioned in another thread; pick a side. I did not think we were there yet but as of the last week I believe they are exactly on point with that statement.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by -HIC- View Post
                      In your twisted scenario you should not be advocating that abortion be legal unless you are participating in killing babies, true?

                      I believe your views on this are so skewed that nobody will be able to make you understand that the bio parents are the ones that should be responsible for the choices they have made. You posted the definition of hypocrisy, in this case if you say you are against abortion then participate or encourage someone to have an abortion you would be a hypocrite. Adopting, or being 'in-line' for adoption simply has nothing to do with a personal opinion on the matter.

                      In fact, your stated objection to abortion and stated tolerance for the practice may, in fact, make you the hypocrite, no?
                      The current laws give the biological parent/s another option to deal with the choices that they have made, agree? Like I said, I don’t agree with abortion, but I also don’t believe that it should be totally illegal. I’m not participating in it or encouraging folks to get them, so that part is kinda shot.

                      The fact that there are thousands & thousands of children in foster care just proves that there a lot of people out there full of hot air. That’s the hypocritical part (to me). People want to complain about all types of things, but are unwilling to take any meaningful action to prevent/help them. People have really forgotten that actions speak louder than words in the social media age.

                      What’s your solution to the problem? What actions are you taking besides calling someone else’s opinion “skewed” on the internet?

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Razrbk89 View Post
                        The current laws give the biological parent/s another option to deal with the choices that they have made, agree? Like I said, I don’t agree with abortion, but I also don’t believe that it should be totally illegal. I’m not participating in it or encouraging folks to get them, so that part is kinda shot.

                        The fact that there are thousands & thousands of children in foster care just proves that there a lot of people out there full of hot air. That’s the hypocritical part (to me). People want to complain about all types of things, but are unwilling to take any meaningful action to prevent/help them. People have really forgotten that actions speak louder than words in the social media age.

                        What’s your solution to the problem? What actions are you taking besides calling someone else’s opinion “skewed” on the internet?
                        Its not our job to "help" or to "take meaningful action to prevent/help" irresponsible people who go out and make a baby, and then choose to kill it rather than to take responsibility for their actions. When a woman spreads her legs, its her responsibility for what comes afterwards. You keep saying you are a hypocrite if you don't "help" solve the problem. What do you want people to do, go buy cases of condoms and birth control pills and hand them out? Maybe go out and stand on a street corner in New York City and beg people to practice safe sex so they don't get pregnant with an unwanted child? I know what you are going to say, you're going to say that you are talking about adopting all of the "unwanted" children born to these lazy, irresponsible people. I really don't even know how to respond to that its so illogical. Correct me if I am wrong, but I read what you are saying to mean, go ahead and kill the unborn because no one will adopt them anyway. I get it, you don't necessarily agree with abortion which is great. But to essentially condone killing babies because there aren't enough adoptive parents to take the unwanted children, just doesn't make any sense.

                        Comment


                          Maybe change law to sterilization

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Razrbk89 View Post
                            The current laws give the biological parent/s another option to deal with the choices that they have made, agree? Like I said, I don’t agree with abortion, but I also don’t believe that it should be totally illegal. I’m not participating in it or encouraging folks to get them, so that part is kinda shot.

                            The fact that there are thousands & thousands of children in foster care just proves that there a lot of people out there full of hot air. That’s the hypocritical part (to me). People want to complain about all types of things, but are unwilling to take any meaningful action to prevent/help them. People have really forgotten that actions speak louder than words in the social media age.

                            What’s your solution to the problem? What actions are you taking besides calling someone else’s opinion “skewed” on the internet?
                            I laid out why I believe your opinion is skewed.

                            Boiled down from your posts:
                            You- If you are pro-life and do not adopt = Hypocrite

                            The point you are not getting is that I do not have to do anything to challenge your premise. I take responsibility for my choices and things I can control. Challenging me, or anyone, to lay out a detailed plain to curb the sexual practices of others is ridiculous.

                            Comment


                              We need to do late term abortions on the politicians and supporters of these laws. Eliminate them from the gene pool.

                              Gary

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Razrbk89 View Post
                                The current laws give the biological parent/s another option to deal with the choices that they have made, agree? Like I said, I don’t agree with abortion, but I also don’t believe that it should be totally illegal. I’m not participating in it or encouraging folks to get them, so that part is kinda shot.

                                The fact that there are thousands & thousands of children in foster care just proves that there a lot of people out there full of hot air. That’s the hypocritical part (to me). People want to complain about all types of things, but are unwilling to take any meaningful action to prevent/help them. People have really forgotten that actions speak louder than words in the social media age.

                                What’s your solution to the problem? What actions are you taking besides calling someone else’s opinion “skewed” on the internet?
                                The reason you can't find common ground on which to argue is because you both see a fetus differently. You see it as a pre-person and he sees it as a person. If they changed the law to allow abortion for fetuses and children up to 5 years old, would you still be a hypocrite to disagree with said law due to your inability/unwillingness to adopt? If you see a fetus as a person, then it's not hypocritical to want to outlaw the murder of that person, regardless of whether or not you're willing to take responsibility for the person you're trying to save.

                                Comment

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