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The 2020 Thermal & Night Vision Thread

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    Originally posted by nchunter View Post
    What’s weird is the apex 38 two years ago was about $2500. I’d think by now they could hold the price and increase the technology or keep the technology and lower the price.
    Thanks for the informative updates as always.
    I completely understand and I believe the Apex was the best value in any thermal rifle scope ever sold. There are a lot of factors, most of which I'm sure I'm not privy to but the factors I have been told about help you understand the constraints. Thermal prices have been dropping for years with the most dramatic drop happening in 2017 when Pulsar shocked and distrupted the market with the Core RXQ30V, the Apexes and the Trails, all at previously unheard of pricing. Since 2017, prices have been stagnant while image quality and features have been very slowing improving.

    There have been a couple startup companies that have tried to enter the market with some pretty good quality $2,500 and $3,000 thermal optics but no one can seem to maintain that price for long.

    I'm not saying no one will ever produce a $2,500 scope as good as the Apex again but what I am saying is I think you can't use the rest of the consumer electronic market as a measuring stick against this small niche industry of thermal optics. I believe the Apexes departure and lack of replacement (by anyone) for over a year shows that prices don't always go down. It might also require something like a downturn in the thermal market for manufacturers to figure out a way to sell for less. As much as I want lower prices, a downturn isn't good for any of us because it will most likely only be the result of a shift in our economy.

    But....SHOT Show is next week and maybe someone else will surprise us but with FLIR's departure, I'm not sure who's left to do it. We'll just have to wait and hope and see what happens.

    Jason

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      I have the lowest model flir thermal and it looks just as bad on the eye piece as it does on the computer. But, for the price I like it and slaughter a lot of pigs with it.

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        Got a nice sized coyote last night. Convergent Bullet and the Axion have been a game changer for us.
        Attached Files

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          Originally posted by Fordnandez View Post
          Got a nice sized coyote last night. Convergent Bullet and the Axion have been a game changer for us.
          Nice!!! The Convergent Bullet is legit.

          Alright, I'm leaving in tomorrow (Sunday) for Vegas for the SHOT Show. I'll be there all week and super busy so updates and replies will probably be slow but I'll report back with any important info.

          Be sure to check out The Late Night Vision Show on Tuesday, it's normally Thursdays but since SHOT starts Tuesday that's the first day we can release our interview with Pulsar/Sightmark.

          - Jason

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            Convergent bullet has been a game changer for me. At first I attributed its success to the animals hearing new calls but the success has continued leading me to believe it is the call. I have now used it at least 8 times and my success rate is substantially better than before. It has been pretty common that we have a 75% call in rate, we don't have that good of a kill rate but at least they are coming in.
            Last edited by Fordnandez; 01-20-2020, 09:30 AM.

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              Originally posted by Outdoor Legacy View Post
              I completely understand and I believe the Apex was the best value in any thermal rifle scope ever sold. There are a lot of factors, most of which I'm sure I'm not privy to but the factors I have been told about help you understand the constraints. Thermal prices have been dropping for years with the most dramatic drop happening in 2017 when Pulsar shocked and distrupted the market with the Core RXQ30V, the Apexes and the Trails, all at previously unheard of pricing. Since 2017, prices have been stagnant while image quality and features have been very slowing improving.

              There have been a couple startup companies that have tried to enter the market with some pretty good quality $2,500 and $3,000 thermal optics but no one can seem to maintain that price for long.

              I'm not saying no one will ever produce a $2,500 scope as good as the Apex again but what I am saying is I think you can't use the rest of the consumer electronic market as a measuring stick against this small niche industry of thermal optics. I believe the Apexes departure and lack of replacement (by anyone) for over a year shows that prices don't always go down. It might also require something like a downturn in the thermal market for manufacturers to figure out a way to sell for less. As much as I want lower prices, a downturn isn't good for any of us because it will most likely only be the result of a shift in our economy.

              But....SHOT Show is next week and maybe someone else will surprise us but with FLIR's departure, I'm not sure who's left to do it. We'll just have to wait and hope and see what happens.

              Jason
              Anything in the low 3's?

              Comment


                Originally posted by SAC View Post
                Anything in the low 3's?
                Thermion xm38 is what I’m looking into buying. Just gotta wait until a couple stars align!

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                  Originally posted by SAC View Post
                  Anything in the low 3's?
                  The Thermion XM38 is in the low 3's. I have the handheld XM30 that uses the same core as this scope. I am super happy with the picture quality considering it is a 320 resolution. I would imagine the picture quality would be better in this Thermion since the objective lense is bigger. Give Jason a call, he will get you set up.

                  We take the confusion out of night vision and thermal optics. We've helped thousands of customers find the optic that is right for their specific situation. At Outdoor Legacy we pride ourselves on offering honest, unbiased pre-purchase advice and customer service after the sale. Have questions? Call us (877)350-1818

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                    Originally posted by Fordnandez View Post
                    The Thermion XM38 is in the low 3's. I have the handheld XM30 that uses the same core as this scope. I am super happy with the picture quality considering it is a 320 resolution. I would imagine the picture quality would be better in this Thermion since the objective lense is bigger. Give Jason a call, he will get you set up.

                    https://outdoorlegacygear.com/produc...15935489376330
                    Too much base mag for my conditions, I think.

                    Comment


                      The 2020 Thermal & Night Vision Thread

                      Since Jason is probably drooling over new thermals in Vegas right now I'll post the link to TLNVS EP:90 where they talk with Sellmark


                      Last edited by Russ81; 01-21-2020, 06:19 AM.

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                        I NEEEEDDDD to know what Pulsar is doing!!! Hurry up Jason...

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                          Originally posted by SAC View Post
                          Too much base mag for my conditions, I think.
                          What is the base mag? I dont think you can get too much until you get to 3.5+

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by gingib View Post
                            What is the base mag? I dont think you can get too much until you get to 3.5+

                            I think it’s 4X or close to that ballpark


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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                              Originally posted by gingib View Post
                              What is the base mag? I dont think you can get too much until you get to 3.5+
                              4.2. I'd like to be below 3, closer to 2. Longest ID is only gonna be about 300 yds. Less than 75 yd shots.

                              Comment


                                While FLIR is getting out of the consumer market, Leopold, Sig, and some other larger companies are just getting into the thermal market, and that should bring prices down some of the next few years. To be honest, FLIR just isn't a company that services the consumer market well, and that kept them from being competitive on a price/quality basis.

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