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    #46
    Wind is only profitable due to government subsidies, so I have to pay for it twice. **** that.

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      #47
      Originally posted by El General View Post
      Wind is only profitable due to government subsidies, so I have to pay for it twice. **** that.
      guess what you do that already for oil/gas, scared of competition on an even playing field?

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        #48
        Originally posted by Falling View Post
        guess what you do that already for oil/gas, scared of competition on an even playing field?
        The depletion allowance is the only significant oil and gas tax break and it is for discovery, not production or power.

        Are wind/solar farms paying into the Land and Water conservation fund?

        You are bragging that wind/solar is only down to 50% production. What percentage of their production are fossil fuel plants down to in the state?
        Last edited by El General; 02-17-2021, 08:21 AM.

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          #49
          i read somewhere that windmills in cold weather actually consume power due to heaters inside of them protecting internals from freezing... not sure how true this is or if anyone would ever fess up to this ..

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            #50
            Originally posted by Falling View Post
            Most wind turbines pay themselves off pretty quickly it's why they are going up, I think it's a ruse by oil guys to avoid competition. Sounds like some of you don't actually like open market capitalism unless it directly benefits you, seems kind of communistic to me.

            Why is an open market so bad boys? I know you guys are going to say, but wind/solar has been subsidized! Guess what, so is oil/gas, and has been since 1915, mad someone else got on that gravy train?

            I'm all for removing all subsidies from all energy personally, guess what happens if you do, the price goes up across the board.

            If you put wind turbines in a horrible location -- sure they suck (which is where people get this talking point, they did a test on a very badly place wind farm) -- don't do that (they are a lot better now at testing an area first).

            As far as I know wind has been contributing it's share of the energy pie since this issue happened, oil/gas HAS NOT, so no idea why wind/solar is getting hammered....except the oil guys are just attacking competition, why people choose to shut down so many of the plants, that was an economic call by some energy bosses so their bonus will be bigger at the end of the year. Problem there is with people, not with solar/wind/gas/oil.

            I think there is tons of oil out there, and it's great. I don't think we are even close to running out of oil. Why focus on other industries then?

            A) It's driving technology advances in batteries and solar big time.
            B) It's a form of competition
            C) While oil/gas may last for another 100, 1000, or even 10000 (I think its more like in this realm) years why not prepare for the future now, put some nuts away for winter, help out future generations, especially if it's driving technology advances

            I understand your bosses might be ****** they are not going to get their million dollar bonuses every year (instead getting half million dollar bonuses) anymore so they pump you guys with negative vibes about competition, and point out every research paper that had anything bad to say about them.

            Ultimately that is what wind/solar is....competition, I thought that is a good thing in an open market?!!

            Why not love ALL of the energy sources? There are a lot of statements in these threads that seem like contradictions / baseless attacks and bringing up fake news facts.

            I'm not in the oil and gas industry and a i think wind turbines suc !

            They aren't cost effective, are unreliable, cause noise pollution (ever lived next to one ?), take up too much real estate, they are a waste of financial and material resources. A small development for research is fine but they are not suitable for reliable energy.

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              #51
              Originally posted by Leverhunter View Post
              I'm not in the oil and gas industry and a i think wind turbines suc !
              Disagree, I think it's just people scared of new stuff.

              Power is power to me, i love all of it -- oil, gas, wind, solar. etc
              As stated i think they should remove all subsidies from ALL power types.
              Perhaps then oil/gas etc is the way to go -- let the market rule.

              Wind turbines have to be at least 300 meters from any house -- often they are much further away, at 300 meters it creates less sound than the average air conditioner. I do think in general they should be at least 1000 meters from any house.

              They make great money if you put them in the right place (cost effective).
              If they make money (they do) then they are not a waste of financial or material resources unless of course you don't own the right land or are just jealous non-oil barons can now make money also.

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                #52
                Originally posted by Bryan11
                ERCOT should have had the foresight that it was going to lose renewable generation and started bringing on more gas units when startup would have been easier before the freeze.

                ... It wasn't a lack a preparation, but it was a historic storm and our facilities are built to run in our standard climate not arctic climates. Being a deregulated market, we don't have endless Capital to invest in being prepared for a once a century storm.
                ....
                ultimately resides in people wanting renewables, .
                Looks to me like lack of preparation to me. You say it was lack of prep, then backtrack, then blame renewables.

                People hating on new energy sources are just playing into the hands of big oil/gas/coal.

                I love oil but I also love competition! Feels like Renewables are getting attacked by Big oil/gas/coal to me, they are afraid their communistic monopoly has competition.
                Last edited by Falling; 02-17-2021, 11:30 AM.

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                  #53
                  Originally posted by El General View Post
                  The depletion allowance is the only significant oil and gas tax break and it is for discovery, not production or power.

                  Are wind/solar farms paying into the Land and Water conservation fund?

                  You are bragging that wind/solar is only down to 50% production. What percentage of their production are fossil fuel plants down to in the state?
                  was not bragging, i was pointing out wind only provides a small SUBSET of the full total power in the system. The plants that are not prepared for cold weather contributed just as much and they produce more of the energy. So why are people just attacking renewables?

                  Also wind turbines work great in cold weather, just people decided to save money by not installing the cold weather protection (just like the factories did not).

                  Just makes no sense to ONLY attack Renewables.

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                    #54
                    No one is scared or jealous. Some just see wind for what it is, a new feel good tech that isn't as reliable and can't produce near as much as an old school coal or gas plant. I'm all for renewables, but they ain't ready for prime time. Only reason wind turbines exist at the current scale is because greenies if anyone are scared. We can't have the tried and true fossil fuels because it's too dirty. Can't have nuclear because some Russian plant put together with duct tape and bubble gum failed. Think of the children... oh fyi, I'm just as upset with our poorly maintained old school infrastructure too

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                      #55
                      Originally posted by FVR JR View Post
                      No one is scared or jealous. Some just see wind for what it is, a new feel good tech that isn't as reliable and can't produce near as much as an old school coal or gas plant. I'm all for renewables, but they ain't ready for prime time. Only reason wind turbines exist at the current scale is because greenies if anyone are scared. We can't have the tried and true fossil fuels because it's too dirty. Can't have nuclear because some Russian plant put together with duct tape and bubble gum failed. Think of the children... oh fyi, I'm just as upset with our poorly maintained old school infrastructure too
                      Wind makes money today, hence it's ready for prime time.
                      Oil / Gas / Coal must not be ready for prime time either, because a big problem right now is the factories pipes are frozen over / were shutdown etc.

                      Makes no sense to attack the little guy on the field when you got the 100+ year champ having the SAME problems.
                      Last edited by Falling; 02-17-2021, 11:30 AM.

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                        #56
                        All of the green energy haters blame the green energy failing but for 90+% of the year wind, above freezing temps and sunshine are the rules in Texas. So 90% of the time green energy is a real contributor to the market. This is a once in every so often event. Yeah it sucked. And suffering with an intestinal virus during it blows. (pun intended).

                        Seems to me it is like most things. There is no middle ground for too many people. The lack of common sense makes it impossible to do what is right in our country.

                        It ends up about money (greed), politics (I hate you and will never agree with you even if I have to screw myself over to do it), and the lies we are fed that we choose to believe because of other's greed agendas.

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                          #57
                          Originally posted by Falling View Post
                          Looks to me like lack of preparation to me. You say it was lack of prep, then backtrack, then blame renewables.

                          People hating on new energy sources are just playing into the hands of big oil.

                          I love oil but I also love competition! Feels like Renewables are getting attacked by Big Oil/ Gas to me, they are afraid their communistic monopoly has competition.
                          Dang we did not have blackouts or brownouts during the last bad storms. It is happening because we started relying on renewables for base load on the generation grid. I think everyone wants competition and cheaper electric bills. The problem with renewables is they are NOT RELIABILE!!! Period!! Until they are we cannot rely on them as much as we do now or this will be the normal every time we have that big ice/cold storm 5 to 10 years apart.

                          Gas, coal and nuclear or a lot more reliable and stable ask anyone that knows!!

                          You must have voted democratic to try to blame this fiasco on BIG OIL!! Good grief!

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                            #58
                            Originally posted by Killer View Post
                            Dang we did not have blackouts or brownouts during the last bad storms. It is happening because we started relying on renewables for base load on the generation grid. I think everyone wants competition and cheaper electric bills. The problem with renewables is they are NOT RELIABILE!!! Period!! Until they are we cannot rely on them as much as we do now or this will be the normal every time we have that big ice/cold storm 5 to 10 years apart.

                            Gas, coal and nuclear or a lot more reliable and stable ask anyone that knows!!

                            You must have voted democratic to try to blame this fiasco on BIG OIL!! Good grief!

                            Energy is energy to me. A lot of coal/gas plants are down right now due to not being able to handle the cold weather as well, or were simply shut down in maintenance mode.

                            I blame everyone -- not just renewables, not just oil/gas/coal. It came down to decisions MEN made, not the energy types. I think we should have MORE of all of these types of energy.

                            So explain to me the logic here:

                            A) Renewables (normally around 20% of our energy : from what i've seen it's currently still providing 10-15 percent ) are not supplying their max output to the power grid. Mostly due to the fact they were not setup to handle cold weather.
                            --> Renewables SUCK!

                            B) Coal/Gas/Oil ( normally around 67% of our energy, i've not seen good numbers on this currently, will be very informative when we get them, what i do know is multiple plants have been shutoff, some have BURNED to the ground, and others were in maintance mode) is not supplying their max output to the power grid. Mostly due to the fact they were not setup to handle cold weather and the management decided to not prepare for a cold storm that was known a good week ahead of time.
                            --> Renewables SUCK!

                            I don't get the logic of holding (A) and (B).
                            It seems like if (A) is true, then (B) should also be held accountable.
                            Instead (B) team here is claiming (A) is at fault for everything!

                            Feels political to me.
                            Last edited by Falling; 02-17-2021, 12:19 PM.

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                              #59
                              Originally posted by Falling View Post
                              Disagree, I think it's just people scared of new stuff.

                              Power is power to me, i love all of it -- oil, gas, wind, solar. etc
                              As stated i think they should remove all subsidies from ALL power types.
                              Perhaps then oil/gas etc is the way to go -- let the market rule.

                              Wind turbines have to be at least 300 meters from any house -- often they are much further away, at 300 meters it creates less sound than the average air conditioner. I do think in general they should be at least 1000 meters from any house.

                              They make great money if you put them in the right place (cost effective).
                              If they make money (they do) then they are not a waste of financial or material resources unless of course you don't own the right land or are just jealous non-oil barons can now make money also.
                              Has nothing to do with being scared. 300 meters is a joke. That’s probably the impact zone when one fails. I occasionally stay on a farm with windmills over a mile away and the noise is bad. The owners are just outside the economic recover area and get nothing except excess noise and a bad view.

                              Without subsidies they are not economically viable and definitely not reliable. At best they are an experiment.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by Leverhunter View Post
                                Has nothing to do with being scared. 300 meters is a joke. That’s probably the impact zone when one fails. I occasionally stay on a farm with windmills over a mile away and the noise is bad. The owners are just outside the economic recover area and get nothing except excess noise and a bad view.

                                Without subsidies they are not economically viable and definitely not reliable. At best they are an experiment.

                                I've been around a lot of wind turbines also, have had no issues. Granted I'm sure sometimes they break, sometimes they are not maintained correctly. You know you can bring a nuisance lawsuits against the owner of the turbine if they are indeed making too much noise, and odds are high you would win.
                                Of course you would have to have proof (easy enough if it's noise).

                                I know a poked fun at 'big oil' some, but most of them are also investing tons of money into wind power, so in the end it's all the same. Energy is Energy boys, and I blame all of them: Coal, Oil, Gas, Solar, Wind-- NONE of them being prepared for the cold in Texas. I don't get why people just focus on Wind, that is my only point...seems like you guys are playing an unfair game.

                                This was bad management. Period.

                                Pretty sure Texas did not join the USA energy grid for a reason....more control over the grid, no federal regulation (or less). Texas and those in charge (not an energy type) are to blame.
                                Last edited by Falling; 02-17-2021, 02:14 PM.

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