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    Well, I guess all speculation & opinions at this point. I have never seen "greater" penalties being given to those drivers that wrecked with Hamilton in the past.....or vice versa. Or anybody else from what I can put my finger on. Maybe back when Sena, Andretti and Schumacher were at eachothers throat [emoji848]. Fans or so-called fans have dug in and be danged if they are willing to truly look at the entire scenario when any driver wrecks a car into another driver. 90% of us can't even manage a vehicle above 90 or 100 miles per hour.......let alone upwards of 220. It is truly a dicey call either way.......I accepted the 10 seconds and was shocked to see him even on the podium.

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      Originally posted by Kingfisher789 View Post
      Its a game of milimeters....They were racing. Just cuz you get into a corner like you never had doesn't mean its not racing.
      I read about that also.[emoji106] Just because practice rounds showed him using a different line has nothing to deaux with raceday!!! These teams lie all day on the radio communication to throw off opposing pit crews. He shook it up on raceday......nothing wrong with that.

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        Originally posted by WyoBull View Post
        Because of this thread I started watching the Netflix series and Wow, I am really enjoying it. Those drivers have balls of steel!

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        Meh, its waaaayyyy safer than it used to be, 1990's CART on ovals was really insane

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          Originally posted by Landrover View Post
          Well, I guess all speculation & opinions at this point. I have never seen "greater" penalties being given to those drivers that wrecked with Hamilton in the past.....or vice versa. Or anybody else from what I can put my finger on. Maybe back when Sena, Andretti and Schumacher were at eachothers throat [emoji848]. Fans or so-called fans have dug in and be danged if they are willing to truly look at the entire scenario when any driver wrecks a car into another driver. 90% of us can't even manage a vehicle above 90 or 100 miles per hour.......let alone upwards of 220. It is truly a dicey call either way.......I accepted the 10 seconds and was shocked to see him even on the podium.

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          I think the guys point was the stewards are penalizing infractions vs incidents...more like football. So his position was that he felt like someone was getting a penalty no matter what. If we had all of the same lead up to Copse and luck fell on Max's side and Lewis wrecked (bc that part was just blind luck) he felt Max would have gotten dinged because the same argument can be made toward Max i.e. he took the line, didn't lift, and "caused" a wreck. What I don't understand is the "he took him out" people....Lewis had absolutely no way to know he wouldn't have been the one in the gravel, it was pure luck....and some great aggressive racing. I wish Max would have lifted only because we could have had a whole race that way which would have been outstanding. Hell, I'm a Gasly fan anyway haha.

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            Originally posted by bossbowman View Post
            Meh, its waaaayyyy safer than it used to be, 1990's CART on ovals was really insane
            How'd that work out for Greg Moore?

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              Originally posted by Wall_Hanger View Post
              I think the guys point was the stewards are penalizing infractions vs incidents...more like football. So his position was that he felt like someone was getting a penalty no matter what. If we had all of the same lead up to Copse and luck fell on Max's side and Lewis wrecked (bc that part was just blind luck) he felt Max would have gotten dinged because the same argument can be made toward Max i.e. he took the line, didn't lift, and "caused" a wreck. What I don't understand is the "he took him out" people....Lewis had absolutely no way to know he wouldn't have been the one in the gravel, it was pure luck....and some great aggressive racing. I wish Max would have lifted only because we could have had a whole race that way which would have been outstanding. Hell, I'm a Gasly fan anyway haha.
              I'm a huge Gasly fan also.[emoji106] He is gonna be special!!!
              Yes, I have to agree....someone was gonna get a penalty.[emoji854] Yes, this non sense that Hamilton took him out was squashed by a bunch of retired F1 drivers as that could have been totally opposite outcome. I would tend to think anyone truly following F1 knows that. [emoji848]

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                If the wreck is settled, can someone explain to me what keeps Haas going?

                Coming from Nascar I find it odd that any one team seems to always be that far behind the rest of the field.
                All the parts seem to be there, team seems to function, drivers drive- yet it's as if they are down a hundred ponies or something.
                Are they new to the game and just in the cutting their teeth stage?

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                  Originally posted by DaveC View Post
                  If the wreck is settled, can someone explain to me what keeps Haas going?



                  Coming from Nascar I find it odd that any one team seems to always be that far behind the rest of the field.

                  All the parts seem to be there, team seems to function, drivers drive- yet it's as if they are down a hundred ponies or something.

                  Are they new to the game and just in the cutting their teeth stage?


                  They are under funded relative to the more comparative teams and quite new. Their first year was 2017 maybe? They also have a very different approach to F1 where they buy “off the shelf” components more so than developing components internally which is designed to keep their spend down. I’m not sure what the secret sauce is, but they haven’t found it yet. I think I read somewhere their total budget was $65million for the season, Lewis Hamilton is projected to make $62 mil this year and that’s almost nothing from endorsements. It’s really kind of nuts. Max’s car is $750k to repair….makes you wonder how much Haas spends on repairs alone [emoji23]

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                    Originally posted by Wall_Hanger View Post
                    They are under funded relative to the more comparative teams and quite new. Their first year was 2017 maybe? They also have a very different approach to F1 where they buy “off the shelf” components more so than developing components internally which is designed to keep their spend down. I’m not sure what the secret sauce is, but they haven’t found it yet. I think I read somewhere their total budget was $65million for the season, Lewis Hamilton is projected to make $62 mil this year and that’s almost nothing from endorsements. It’s really kind of nuts. Max’s car is $750k to repair….makes you wonder how much Haas spends on repairs alone [emoji23]

                    I’ve always wondered this too… just like Williams.. how do the come up with the funds to “compete”

                    What happens to Williams when Russell moves on?


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                      Originally posted by Wall_Hanger View Post
                      They are under funded relative to the more comparative teams and quite new. Their first year was 2017 maybe? They also have a very different approach to F1 where they buy “off the shelf” components more so than developing components internally which is designed to keep their spend down. I’m not sure what the secret sauce is, but they haven’t found it yet. I think I read somewhere their total budget was $65million for the season, Lewis Hamilton is projected to make $62 mil this year and that’s almost nothing from endorsements. It’s really kind of nuts. Max’s car is $750k to repair….makes you wonder how much Haas spends on repairs alone [emoji23]

                      Excellent info, new in 2017 says a lot.

                      From what I gleaned from the Drive to Survive Netflix show- Williams has been around for a while. (Daughter took over after father retired or something to that effect)

                      Watching them flail about week after week is kinda sad. I give her /them props for trying, but hoping for a mid pack finish has got to be frustrating- for all involved.


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                        LOL guess the netflix show has a bunch of newbies to F!, HAAS used to be very competitive when they first started up a few years back, Williams was "THE" team back in the early 90's. With the speed of development in F1 a team can go from the top to the back and vice versa in a matter of seasons. Current Mercedes team used to be Honda back in 2008 and sucked, then changed to Brawn and won the championship the next year and then became the Mercedes works team in 2010

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                          Haas started in F1 in 2016. They are in really poor form this year due to not updating their car for the 2021 season, and focusing on the 2022 car instead. Also, two rookies in the seats this year has a lot to do with it.

                          There is so much that goes into the cars, it’s difficult to point to2-3 areas that are “at fault.” It all starts with the designers and engineers. The top talent is usually at the better teams because they can pay more. But they also look at how much “freedom” the team is willing to give them. Take Adrian Newey for example. He was with Williams in the winning years in the early nineties. Went to Red Bull in 2006 for a “new challenge” and really liked the culture they had there. Built the RB car to become a championship winning machine in a couple of years.

                          The driver has to be good at driving, but also has to be really good at communicating with his engineers what’s going on with the car throughout a lap. That’s how the car / driver / team improve through a weekend, throughout a season.

                          During a race, how good is your tire strategy? How good is the team at pit stops? How reliable is the car throughout a race weekend?

                          In Formula 1, the driver is 20% of the equation, the car is the other 80%. Compared to motorcycle racing, say MotoGP — the rider is 80% and the bike is 20% of the formula.

                          There are SO many factors, and they are always changing. The FIA changes the regulations every year. Many years aren’t major changes, but minor suspension or aero requirements.

                          I love this sport. It is never boring to me at all.

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                            Originally posted by F1addict View Post
                            Haas started in F1 in 2016. They are in really poor form this year due to not updating their car for the 2021 season, and focusing on the 2022 car instead. Also, two rookies in the seats this year has a lot to do with it.

                            There is so much that goes into the cars, it’s difficult to point to2-3 areas that are “at fault.” It all starts with the designers and engineers. The top talent is usually at the better teams because they can pay more. But they also look at how much “freedom” the team is willing to give them. Take Adrian Newey for example. He was with Williams in the winning years in the early nineties. Went to Red Bull in 2006 for a “new challenge” and really liked the culture they had there. Built the RB car to become a championship winning machine in a couple of years.

                            The driver has to be good at driving, but also has to be really good at communicating with his engineers what’s going on with the car throughout a lap. That’s how the car / driver / team improve through a weekend, throughout a season.

                            During a race, how good is your tire strategy? How good is the team at pit stops? How reliable is the car throughout a race weekend?

                            In Formula 1, the driver is 20% of the equation, the car is the other 80%. Compared to motorcycle racing, say MotoGP — the rider is 80% and the bike is 20% of the formula.

                            There are SO many factors, and they are always changing. The FIA changes the regulations every year. Many years aren’t major changes, but minor suspension or aero requirements.

                            I love this sport. It is never boring to me at all.
                            or motocross or desert racing where I would say its 90-95% driver. Nascar and Indycar are spec series now so its more driver than car than is used to be but probably 50/50, then you have SRX which is basically new IROC, the idea there its all driver.

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                              Originally posted by F1addict View Post
                              Haas started in F1 in 2016. They are in really poor form this year due to not updating their car for the 2021 season, and focusing on the 2022 car instead. Also, two rookies in the seats this year has a lot to do with it.

                              There is so much that goes into the cars, it’s difficult to point to2-3 areas that are “at fault.” It all starts with the designers and engineers. The top talent is usually at the better teams because they can pay more. But they also look at how much “freedom” the team is willing to give them. Take Adrian Newey for example. He was with Williams in the winning years in the early nineties. Went to Red Bull in 2006 for a “new challenge” and really liked the culture they had there. Built the RB car to become a championship winning machine in a couple of years.

                              The driver has to be good at driving, but also has to be really good at communicating with his engineers what’s going on with the car throughout a lap. That’s how the car / driver / team improve through a weekend, throughout a season.

                              During a race, how good is your tire strategy? How good is the team at pit stops? How reliable is the car throughout a race weekend?

                              In Formula 1, the driver is 20% of the equation, the car is the other 80%. Compared to motorcycle racing, say MotoGP — the rider is 80% and the bike is 20% of the formula.

                              There are SO many factors, and they are always changing. The FIA changes the regulations every year. Many years aren’t major changes, but minor suspension or aero requirements.

                              I love this sport. It is never boring to me at all.


                              I agree. The car makes the drivers job easier but the driver’s skill is getting 100% out of the car under various setups. To me it’s more like they are one single entity and the more cohesive they are the better the outcomes will be.

                              Paddy Lowe has a good interview in Beyond the Grid talking about the car vs driver. He points out that while Lewis is 100% a special, wicked talented driver he also has been the heir of immense fortune in the fact that Mercedes has had the best car in the turbo era hands down. He also talks about the fact the Lewis hasn’t had many true rivals with comparable cars (but some with what he thought could be comparable talent) forcing the tighter points race….until recently with the obvious exception being Nico in 2016.

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                                Still know dates for Miami but supposedly the track has moved forward decently since I was there in May.......and it was literally NOTHING worth looking at.

                                Attend the F1 Miami Grand Prix 2024 at Hard Rock Stadium with an F1 Experiences' Official Ticket Package featuring race tickets, VIP hospitality & insider activities


                                Originally posted by Wall_Hanger View Post
                                I agree. The car makes the drivers job easier but the driver’s skill is getting 100% out of the car under various setups. To me it’s more like they are one single entity and the more cohesive they are the better the outcomes will be.

                                Paddy Lowe has a good interview in Beyond the Grid talking about the car vs driver. He points out that while Lewis is 100% a special, wicked talented driver he also has been the heir of immense fortune in the fact that Mercedes has had the best car in the turbo era hands down. He also talks about the fact the Lewis hasn’t had many true rivals with comparable cars (but some with what he thought could be comparable talent) forcing the tighter points race….until recently with the obvious exception being Nico in 2016.

                                Don't forget that Hamilton was largely dominant before the era changed to hybrid and before he was with Mercedes.
                                I saw where Christian Horner announced that the price tag on Max's car would be $1.8 million pounds..........ouch! Oh, the pic you posted of the Redbull is shocking. Is that actually the right car?

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