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    #16
    Originally posted by AntlerCollector View Post
    I agree with you. Most leases still allow some sort of a cull or management buck instead of allowing two trophy bucks. I’m just trying to get a better handle on what parameters would be considered a management on a lease that is growing trophies
    Take the MLD approach. Count your deer and figure out how many mouths need to be removed and how many of each sex. Then go from there based on whatever parameters you come up with

    Comment


      #17
      I would not. After taking a lot of guys hunting for over 10 years. I would never get involved in that again. We did that back in the early 80s to the mid 90s. The people hunting today, are a whole different breed.
      If someone asked me to run a hunting camp or be a guide on a hunting ranch I would laugh at them. We had too many problems, many years ago. Someone would have to pay me a lot of money to do that again today. Lease out property for hunting I would have the same view of the whole deal. Until you have been in that position, you really don't have any idea, the crazy crap, that you will wind up dealing with.

      There better be a lot of profit and a lot of money involved, or I would not even consider it. I mean well into the six figures or I would walk away. I know there are guys who will say it's great. But I can tell you of many very crazy stories, that I don't ever want to deal with again. When I say I will never take anyone from Dallas hunting again, I do mean it. Never did we take someone hunting, that came in from Dallas, that did not result in a very memorable weekend and not in a good way. That was back in the early 80s to mid 90s. I would not even want to think of what crazy stuff, you would encounter today.

      Until you have done it for a while and dealt with a lot of people from all walks of life, you won't fully understand. Once you get to that point, you will be leery of hunting with people you don't know very well. Every time some guy asks to go hunting with me, I decline very quickly, unless, I really think the guy knows what he is doing and that would come after talking to him a lot prior to him asking to go hunting with me. I don't want to baby sit an adult, nor do I want to treat an adult like they need to be baby sat. So when I have any questions about what they are going to be like out in the field, I just pass on the whole idea. I don't care to find out the hard way, that they need someone watching them all the time. It really messes up my hunting.

      But the other side of the deal, is gaining experience with many different people and getting a better idea of who you should let on a lease and who to tell your booked. It will take a lot of dealings before you get to where you can do that accurately. I don't have the patience, I really never did. When they were in my control, where I told them what to do and what not to do, every step of the way. I usually never had much of a problem. But when I let them do things their way, that's when we started having problems. On a lease, they are going to do things their way. You will eventually find out later, they did things their way. Then you get to deal with their, wrong doings, after they are done. Some of those wrong doings will be easily fixed, and others will make you wish you never came up with the idea of leasing land to hunt.

      Hopefully if you do this deal, you get some good advice from guys who have a lot of experience leasing land and they give you some good starting points, to base your rules off of. We never leased land to other people, we just took a lot of guys hunting over probably 12 years time. I really liked taking some of the guys hunting we took hunting. We really looked forward to some of the guys coming back. But then there were buys we did not know, that caused us all types of problems. We dealt with some crazy crap back then, I don't ever want to deal with again. Now days, I would have very little patience for the crap we dealt with back in those days.

      You want to hear about crazy. We had a guy bring three of his sons out to hunt deer. Well the youngest brother was supposed to kill the biggest deer. We did not fully understand that. But we did our best to put the youngest son in a spot where he should have a shot at a very nice deer.

      Well the oldest son, who was not supposed to get anything worth while, killed a huge buck. We put him in a blind that nobody had ever seen anything other than does and javelina out of, on occasions there was a couple of fork horns that would show up. But our luck, a monster buck showed up, I mean huge body, huge rack. So the oldest son shot and killed the buck. Well his younger brother killed a very nice buck, that same morning. Everybody was very excited, till we got to the blind the oldest brother was in. Then we found that dang mule with antlers laying in the sendero. That thing was huge. Everybody was very excited, except for the father of the three sons. He very quickly informed us, we had messed up badly, by allowing the older son to kill a bigger buck. We all though, ok sure, whatever. We already had the buck the youngest son had killed, loaded. Then we loaded the oldest son's buck. By the time we were heading back to camp, I knew things were going to go bad. The father, youngest brother and middle brother, were all talking amongst themselves and not talking to the oldest brother.

      That evening, we took everybody to a stand, except for the father, youngest brother and middle brother. The oldest brother went back to the same stand. The two other brothers and the father stayed at camp. At least till we were gone. Then the three of them took off, went to the blind the oldest brother was in and shot that blind full of holes. The oldest brother, had to bail out of the blind, broke his arm bailing out. Then hid up in the mesquite brush for hours. Till we showed up. We heard all of the shooting, but had no idea what was going on. You would never expect family members to shoot at other family member, much less over that family member shooting a larger deer, than the preferred family member.

      But they did, we had a deer blind full of bullet holes. The father, and two younger brothers, completely denied ever shooting at that blind, with that brother inside. But then at the same time, when we told them to leave, and the oldest brother to stay, they got very upset. They refused to leave without him. We made them leave without him. We took him to the hospital with a broken arm. To this day, we don't know how long he lived after he got home. But I can tell you, if I were him, I would never have showed up for Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas dinner, or any family event.

      The idea of turning guys I don't know, loose unsupervised, on a piece of land and me being the person responsible for their actions, my thoughts are absolutely not.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by RifleBowPistol View Post
        I would not. After taking a lot of guys hunting for over 10 years. I would never get involved in that again. We did that back in the early 80s to the mid 90s. The people hunting today, are a whole different breed.
        If someone asked me to run a hunting camp or be a guide on a hunting ranch I would laugh at them. We had too many problems, many years ago. Someone would have to pay me a lot of money to do that again today. Lease out property for hunting I would have the same view of the whole deal. Until you have been in that position, you really don't have any idea, the crazy crap, that you will wind up dealing with.

        There better be a lot of profit and a lot of money involved, or I would not even consider it. I mean well into the six figures or I would walk away. I know there are guys who will say it's great. But I can tell you of many very crazy stories, that I don't ever want to deal with again. When I say I will never take anyone from Dallas hunting again, I do mean it. Never did we take someone hunting, that came in from Dallas, that did not result in a very memorable weekend and not in a good way. That was back in the early 80s to mid 90s. I would not even want to think of what crazy stuff, you would encounter today.

        Until you have done it for a while and dealt with a lot of people from all walks of life, you won't fully understand. Once you get to that point, you will be leery of hunting with people you don't know very well. Every time some guy asks to go hunting with me, I decline very quickly, unless, I really think the guy knows what he is doing and that would come after talking to him a lot prior to him asking to go hunting with me. I don't want to baby sit an adult, nor do I want to treat an adult like they need to be baby sat. So when I have any questions about what they are going to be like out in the field, I just pass on the whole idea. I don't care to find out the hard way, that they need someone watching them all the time. It really messes up my hunting.

        But the other side of the deal, is gaining experience with many different people and getting a better idea of who you should let on a lease and who to tell your booked. It will take a lot of dealings before you get to where you can do that accurately. I don't have the patience, I really never did. When they were in my control, where I told them what to do and what not to do, every step of the way. I usually never had much of a problem. But when I let them do things their way, that's when we started having problems. On a lease, they are going to do things their way. You will eventually find out later, they did things their way. Then you get to deal with their, wrong doings, after they are done. Some of those wrong doings will be easily fixed, and others will make you wish you never came up with the idea of leasing land to hunt.

        Hopefully if you do this deal, you get some good advice from guys who have a lot of experience leasing land and they give you some good starting points, to base your rules off of. We never leased land to other people, we just took a lot of guys hunting over probably 12 years time. I really liked taking some of the guys hunting we took hunting. We really looked forward to some of the guys coming back. But then there were buys we did not know, that caused us all types of problems. We dealt with some crazy crap back then, I don't ever want to deal with again. Now days, I would have very little patience for the crap we dealt with back in those days.

        You want to hear about crazy. We had a guy bring three of his sons out to hunt deer. Well the youngest brother was supposed to kill the biggest deer. We did not fully understand that. But we did our best to put the youngest son in a spot where he should have a shot at a very nice deer.

        Well the oldest son, who was not supposed to get anything worth while, killed a huge buck. We put him in a blind that nobody had ever seen anything other than does and javelina out of, on occasions there was a couple of fork horns that would show up. But our luck, a monster buck showed up, I mean huge body, huge rack. So the oldest son shot and killed the buck. Well his younger brother killed a very nice buck, that same morning. Everybody was very excited, till we got to the blind the oldest brother was in. Then we found that dang mule with antlers laying in the sendero. That thing was huge. Everybody was very excited, except for the father of the three sons. He very quickly informed us, we had messed up badly, by allowing the older son to kill a bigger buck. We all though, ok sure, whatever. We already had the buck the youngest son had killed, loaded. Then we loaded the oldest son's buck. By the time we were heading back to camp, I knew things were going to go bad. The father, youngest brother and middle brother, were all talking amongst themselves and not talking to the oldest brother.

        That evening, we took everybody to a stand, except for the father, youngest brother and middle brother. The oldest brother went back to the same stand. The two other brothers and the father stayed at camp. At least till we were gone. Then the three of them took off, went to the blind the oldest brother was in and shot that blind full of holes. The oldest brother, had to bail out of the blind, broke his arm bailing out. Then hid up in the mesquite brush for hours. Till we showed up. We heard all of the shooting, but had no idea what was going on. You would never expect family members to shoot at other family member, much less over that family member shooting a larger deer, than the preferred family member.

        But they did, we had a deer blind full of bullet holes. The father, and two younger brothers, completely denied ever shooting at that blind, with that brother inside. But then at the same time, when we told them to leave, and the oldest brother to stay, they got very upset. They refused to leave without him. We made them leave without him. We took him to the hospital with a broken arm. To this day, we don't know how long he lived after he got home. But I can tell you, if I were him, I would never have showed up for Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas dinner, or any family event.

        The idea of turning guys I don't know, loose unsupervised, on a piece of land and me being the person responsible for their actions, my thoughts are absolutely not.
        AC already runs a couple leases. I don’t think he was asking what you thought he was

        As far as your post goes, I have to agree with you. If I had dealt with that, I would pass on ever doing it again

        Comment


          #19
          I would use the Hunter Sight journal to create a hunt club for my group.

          The lease rules would be on the main page of our club

          The community forum for our club would be how we communicate with everyone at once.

          We could share game photos to discuss culls etc or ages of bucks

          Everyone could log in their own kill in to the club books without just me having to keep up with it. We could instantly see who has shot what and the date. The weather conditions are automatically attached to each kill by the Hunter Sight. I would utilized the trends feature that cost 25 bucks a year to see analytics on age of harvested animals and buck vs doe ratio killed to help the group.

          I would have every hunter log in the nutrition logs when they filled their protein feeders etc. Each feeder would be named after the hunter. We would be able to see as a group the consumption rates of the feeders...Depending on the honesty of each guy. However we would have the tools to really track the best feeds or areas concentrated with more game by doing this

          As a group we would upload pics into the Hunter Sights 'Hit List' feature that we agreed were culls or mature bucks free to be harvested with no complaint from anyone.

          Lastly, nothing is perfect but this platform sure can help achieve a lot of things people always talk about and can be logged in from your phone, computer, or ipad making it convenient for every member to participate.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Mexico View Post
            Unless you're high fence, culling is pissing in the wind. Let 'em all get a little age and shoot what you like. You'll be surprised what " inferior " deer can do with age and proper nutrition..


            After many years of trying to learn how to properly cull, this is spot on. Let em all get to 4-5 then shoot what you want. I’ve got a slick 6 I shot in Junction that’s in the high 120’s. Chance Love thinks he’s pushing 130. He was 6 or 7, can’t really remember exact age.


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

            Comment


              #21
              Like others have said, age is your biggest and best ingredient.

              I would take every deer to 5.5 unless he was sure enough trash and agreed upon by the group. Then after a few years of that with a established 5.5 group, I would raise it to 6.5 minimum and leave it there.

              I’ve also seen on here by a group that visual history is needed before a buck can be taken. You have to have video or trail camera approval from the other lease members that he’s mature and needs to be killed. Sounds a little more than most, but I like it.
              Last edited by TheHammer; 09-16-2020, 04:39 AM.

              Comment


                #22
                RifleBowPistol, that’s a crazy story for sure. I don’t know what it has to do with what I was asking though

                If you can find someone willing to pay 6 figures to manage a hunting lease please let me know. Lol.

                I’ve been running leases for 30 years. It’s not new to me. I’m just looking for a better way to setup allotments in regards to what many places consider management/culls.

                I appreciate all the advice so far.

                Comment


                  #23
                  The term cull or management buck on a LF ranch is a term used to justify killing a second buck. There I said it. @mexico


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                  Comment


                    #24
                    If you decide to do this somewhere East of 45 let me know AC[emoji1303]


                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Mayhem View Post
                      The term cull or management buck on a LF ranch is a term used to justify killing a second buck. There I said it. @mexico


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                      I agree 100%. That’s exactly what it is.

                      However shooting two mature trophy bucks per member is not realistic for long term success. So in most lease set ups there is an allowance for the 2nd buck to be a “cull” of some sort.
                      Last edited by AntlerCollector; 09-16-2020, 04:40 AM.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Peoples feelings seem to get hurt more when someone else shoots the cull after they’ve shot their trophy. This is usually the time they’ll say they’d have gladly shot that deer as their trophy, etc.

                        I think best way to keep drama is have a management ‘hit list’. If somebody is against one of them being management, then they can take it down and it can be killed as a trophy.

                        .growing up we had all kinds of rules on our east Texas place. They seemed to work as we consistently killed some pretty solid deer, but it sure did take a lot of the fun out of it when it came to dining my kids hunting. ‘Sorry kiddo, I know that deer is huge and would be your first buck, but he is only 4.5....we can’t shoot him.”

                        I now run our place out in south west Texas....our number one rule is to just have fun. We ask the few folks on the place to just shoot what makes em happy. Have they killed some stuff they shouldn’t have, Yep. But they were happy and that made me happy. They’ll
                        Kill a bigger one next time. We still kill some pretty decent (140”) deer, but with basically zero headache.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Hoss163 View Post
                          Trophy at least 5.5 and over 130
                          Management At least 5.5 and under 130
                          This is our rules works just fine. The problem with making an exception for one deer then you open the box. Makes your life alot better

                          Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

                          Comment


                            #28
                            NEW rules-MUST shoot a doe 1st, then 10 point or better Is a trophy buck, CULL is spikes and antlers with no brow tines growing,(age always was just a guess) youth hunts any animal they want.
                            Plus it’s easy to remember, and only on low fence
                            Last edited by whitetailfanatic; 09-16-2020, 05:38 AM.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by whitetailfanatic View Post
                              NEW rules-MUST shoot a doe 1st, then 10 point or better Is a trophy buck, CULL is spikes and antlers with no brow tines growing,(age always was just a guess) youth hunts any animal they want.
                              Plus it’s easy to remember, and only on low fence


                              So what happens to all the 8 pointers? They just die of old age?

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Yep or youth possibly or grow up to be a 9 or 10’s,12 or 8 with kickers and splits who knows it’s low fence, I am not the creator , just a hunter wanting to spend time outdoors with family and friends doesn’t need to be a competition just trying to do our part no matter how minuscule it might be to
                                Each their own, nothing in stone unless land owner specified, that ol saying my way or highway
                                Last edited by whitetailfanatic; 09-16-2020, 06:09 AM.

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