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    #91
    Originally posted by sir shovelhands View Post
    Offshoring of manufacturing and automation are not leaving many good blue collar jobs. Many decent jobs now require college degrees (which I think is dumb), and less than half (closer to a third) of the population has one. It doesn't help that the education system has declined significantly.

    Also, regarding equal opportunity: social mobility in the US is terrible. Since the 80s (again), the likelihood of moving up a class (in reference to earnings) has decreased significantly, and the likelihood of stepping down a class has increased. There's also plenty of studies that have been done on the correlation between wealth and where people end up in life. The results are predictable.
    You can blabble all day long. Instead just go outside and look at the facts.
    All kids have access to equal education (actually minorities have better access). In today's world it's 100% up to the individual person to chose where they want to be.

    You ever consider the "likelihoods" you mention are because certain races keep themselves down? Oh forbid that be talked about!

    Comment


      #92
      Originally posted by RiverRat1 View Post
      You can blabble all day long. Instead just go outside and look at the facts.

      All kids have access to equal education (actually minorities have better access). In today's world it's 100% up to the individual person to chose where they want to be.



      You ever consider the "likelihoods" you mention are because certain races keep themselves down? Oh forbid that be talked about!


      ^^^^^^ Truth right there!

      Get off your *** and make something of yourself. There is NO other country in the world where you can be what you want to be other than right here.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

      Comment


        #93
        Originally posted by riverrat1 View Post
        you can blabble all day long. Instead just go outside and look at the facts.
        All kids have access to equal education (actually minorities have better access).
        Facts? Sure, let's look at some:

        https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releas...ds-department-

        https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...t-less-funding

        https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED544709.pdf

        https://www.theatlantic.com/business...chools/497333/

        https://www.sbs.com.au/news/poor-kid...w-report-finds (this one's from Australia, and shows the same thing).


        Do you have anything to support your assertion?

        Originally posted by riverrat1 View Post
        in today's world it's 100% up to the individual person to chose where they want to be.
        Wishful thinking at its best.

        Originally posted by riverrat1 View Post
        you ever consider the "likelihoods" you mention are because certain races keep themselves down? Oh forbid that be talked about!
        I wasn't talking about race, I was talking about wealth, but you seem to be under the impression that poverty and inequality only affects "certain races". You might be surprised to find that there are quantitatively more white americans in poverty than hispanic or black americans.

        But hey, we'll talk about it. If you've got any articles, papers, or publications that show how "certain races" keep themselves down, I'll happily read them.

        Comment


          #94
          Originally posted by sir shovelhands View Post
          You might be surprised to find that there are quantitatively more white americans in poverty than hispanic or black americans.
          Holy Earth shattering information here, maybe it is because there are quantitatively more white Americans than Hispanic or Black Americans. Why not look at percentages?

          If somebody is making $24k/year, in America, not matter what race they are. I would bet there were more than a few self inflicted wounds along the way. Probably why the poverty line is the flattest of the 3.
          Attached Files

          Comment


            #95
            Yes, let me pull up that article how blacks keep themselves down

            You know dang good and well articles like that get deleted so fast it's stupid due to "being racist".

            I'm talking about the real world we live in, not the one you see on TV. When I walk down the street and see a guy that's black he's just a guy...Not a guy getting tased by LEO for no reason. And I don't see people yelling racist slurs at him.

            But I do see blacks getting hired over whites with more experience. Hired just because of their race. I do see Spanish speaking kids get free pre-K where poor white families don't get it. And you live in Houston so I know you see these things.

            And I see Now hiring signs at nearly every business in town. Don't tell me there's anyone out there without a job that wants one.

            In schools, if anything, smart kids are held back because the teachers spend most of their time teaching the lower students.

            So show me one thing where "poor" people are held back.

            Comment


              #96
              Originally posted by batmaninja View Post
              Holy Earth shattering information here, maybe it is because there are quantitatively more white Americans than Hispanic or Black Americans. Why not look at percentages?
              We all know the percentages, but I used quantity to emphasize that poverty is not a race specific issue. While it's worse among some races, it's affects all of them. But somehow we're getting bogged down in a discussion about race and opportunity, when my argument was in regards to wealth (regardless of race) and opportunity. Poor rural areas with mostly white populations (coal country is a good example) suffer from the same lack of opportunity as poor urban black / latino populations.

              Originally posted by batmaninja View Post
              If somebody is making $24k/year, in America, not matter what race they are. I would bet there were more than a few self inflicted wounds along the way. Probably why the poverty line is the flattest of the 3.
              Obviously there are plenty of cases were people screw up, don't work hard, or just don't care. But my argument is about equality of opportunity.

              FYI, that graph isn't adjusted for inflation. Here's one that is, and paints a less rosy picture.

              https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

              Comment


                #97
                Originally posted by sir shovelhands View Post
                But my argument is about equality of opportunity.
                Alight then.

                Originally posted by sir shovelhands View Post
                Poor rural areas with mostly white populations (coal country is a good example) suffer from the same lack of opportunity as poor urban black / latino populations.
                Would you say there are more opportunities in a urban environment (many many employers needing all sorts of skill levels) or a rural one (where you options are being a plant worker)?

                Comment


                  #98
                  Originally posted by riverrat1 View Post
                  yes, let me pull up that article how blacks keep themselves down

                  You know dang good and well articles like that get deleted so fast it's stupid due to "being racist".

                  I'm talking about the real world we live in, not the one you see on tv. When i walk down the street and see a guy that's black he's just a guy...not a guy getting tased by leo for no reason. And i don't see people yelling racist slurs at him.

                  But i do see blacks getting hired over whites with more experience. Hired just because of their race. I do see spanish speaking kids get free pre-k where poor white families don't get it. And you live in houston so i know you see these things.
                  I'm talking about wealth and opportunity, and you keep trying to turning this into a discussion on race. I'm really not interested.

                  Originally posted by riverrat1 View Post
                  and i see now hiring signs at nearly every business in town. Don't tell me there's anyone out there without a job that wants one.
                  Oh there are plenty of jobs, and unemployment is quite low. But you can have a job and be below the poverty line. The issue is not how many jobs there are, it's how well they pay, and how little wages have risen (accounting for inflation) over the past few decades.

                  Now given the high employment we currently have, we should be seeing wages growing a bunch due to competition, but they're really not moving much. That article I posted earlier tries to explain the issue.

                  https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevede.../#790b041e1abc

                  Originally posted by riverrat1 View Post
                  in schools, if anything, smart kids are held back because the teachers spend most of their time teaching the lower students.
                  In schools without G/T programs, that can certainly be the case.

                  Originally posted by riverrat1 View Post
                  so show me one thing where "poor" people are held back.
                  The links in my previous post have your answers.

                  Comment


                    #99
                    Originally posted by sir shovelhands View Post
                    Offshoring of manufacturing and automation are not leaving many good blue collar jobs.
                    You are answering your own question.

                    Less jobs + growing population = Less opportunities.

                    From your article-

                    Holding worker salaries as low as possible is a key to securing short-term quarterly profits, executive bonuses and rising share prices. Seemingly unnoticed by the world’s leading economists, shareholder value is not only the gospel of the global economy. It’s also the root cause of stagnant worker salaries.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by batmaninja View Post
                      Would you say there are more opportunities in a urban environment (many many employers needing all sorts of skill levels) or a rural one (where you options are being a plant worker)?
                      I'd say it would depend on how balanced and adaptable the area's economy is.

                      To compare two cities, Detroit never recovered from the loss of manufacturing and it is still not a good place to look for work, hell 30% of the population has fled since 2000. The 80s oil crash was devastating to Houston, but the city adapted and diversified its economy over the following decades, so now oil crashes don't take much toll on the city.

                      But on the whole, a city will typically have an easier time adapting and balancing it's economy, and attracting businesses as opposed to a small town. So my answer to your question would be: more opportunities in urban areas.

                      Now some manufacturing has been returning to small town USA, so that may change in the next few decades, hopefully.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by batmaninja View Post
                        You are answering your own question.

                        Less jobs + growing population = Less opportunities.
                        Not quite what I said. I said there are fewer good blue collar jobs available, not fewer jobs in general. Currently we have plenty of jobs, and low unemployment. Opportunity is not only measured by the availability of jobs, but of the wages those jobs pay.

                        Originally posted by batmaninja View Post
                        From your article-

                        Holding worker salaries as low as possible is a key to securing short-term quarterly profits, executive bonuses and rising share prices. Seemingly unnoticed by the world’s leading economists, shareholder value is not only the gospel of the global economy. It’s also the root cause of stagnant worker salaries.
                        An interesting analysis from the article, don't you think?

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by sir shovelhands View Post
                          I said there are fewer good blue collar jobs available, not fewer jobs in general.
                          I agree that there are fewer blue collar jobs.

                          But I would argue there are fewer jobs in general, for the same reason. Everything is getting automated from McDonalds to farming. The more menial your job is, the easier you will be to replace. Its not like the blue collar jobs are being replaced by white collar or minimum wage jobs, for a net gain. This is like high school macro economics, sorry I dont think the article was that informative.

                          Originally posted by sir shovelhands View Post
                          Offshoring of manufacturing and automation are not leaving many good blue collar jobs.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by RiverRat1 View Post
                            You can blabble all day long. Instead just go outside and look at the facts.
                            All kids have access to equal education (actually minorities have better access). In today's world it's 100% up to the individual person to chose where they want to be.

                            You ever consider the "likelihoods" you mention are because certain races keep themselves down? Oh forbid that be talked about!
                            You ever consider that you might walk out on a totally different set of “facts” depending on which front door you step out of?

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Razrbk89 View Post
                              You ever consider that you might walk out on a totally different set of “facts” depending on which front door you step out of?
                              You ever consider that, depending on which front door you step out of, that a totally different set of excuses are used to deny the facts?

                              Comment


                                Our taxes are certainly out of control, but I would rather be stuck paying state tax than property tax.

                                I could not afford what I have if I was still in Texas. Cost of living, coupled with property taxes wouldn’t work out for me, even with the better income I would likely earn down there.

                                Comment

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