Originally posted by WTJim
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Originally posted by Jason View PostNot to speak for DFA, but I don’t think the question is would salvation be available. Of course it would! Christ died for sinners of which I am the worst. The question is what would repentance look like? If this were an alcoholic, you’d expect them to seek help to overcome alcoholism. If this was a swindler, you’d expect them to begin honest business practices. If this were a chronic adulterer, you’d expect them to honor marriage.
How do you counsel this individual as to what repentance should look like? Can they still identify as whichever gender they so choose, or would you counsel them to honor God but mainting their birth gender.
Without repentance, there can be no salvation. Much of our repentance is very private and personal between just us and God. This situation (perhaps) demands a little more “public” repentance.
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I would "accept" them or however you want to term it, and show compassion and love.
People expect change while insulting and chastising, when the facts show that is not an environment conducive to change.
You cannot control others, but you can control yourself. Be an example, and be a friend.
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This gets deep and way to PC.
Seems like most here agree that sin is sin..all equal.
What if this person was a serial killer? Just accept them in?
And FTR I agree with post #2 that it's a mental disorder. I'm not saying they don't need Jesus or to be loved..But just don't act like they are normal because it's PC to do so.
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Originally posted by RiverRat1 View PostThis gets deep and way to PC.
Seems like most here agree that sin is sin..all equal.
What if this person was a serial killer? Just accept them in?
And FTR I agree with post #2 that it's a mental disorder. I'm not saying they don't need Jesus or to be loved..But just don't act like they are normal because it's PC to do so.
Stealing and Killing affect another person. What one person chooses to call themselves has no affect on me, or anyone else for that matter.
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Originally posted by JLivi1224 View PostHow so would this transgression require public repentance? I believe that all repentance is a private and personal endeavor between sinner and God. We had a local church make an adulterer stand before the church and apologize for their sin. They then made the wife step down after her divorce because she was no longer married, which they require of staff. I thought it absolutely absurd and wrong.
I would actually argue that public confession may or may not be a sign of repentance. There are so many variables that it would be nearly impossible to make a blanket statement as to all public confession is or isn't a sign of repentance.
Also, forced expulsion can not be equated with repentance. While there might be repentance, forced anything is not the same as repentance.
Genuine repentance is required for salvation, public confession is not. The ethical question posed above is how would you advise this person on what that repentance looks like in their life? Because they physically transformed themselves to another gender and are participating a sinful lifestyle, how would you counsel on what their life needs to look like next? Can they stay in a homosexual lifestyle? Should they do all they can to go back to their birth gender? Depending on where they are in their transition, should they stop with the transition?
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Originally posted by jerp View PostPeople with gender dysphoria need Jesus just like everybody else. Are you going to start screening potential members for other mental issues as well? Since when does a church turn away sick people?
I see this judgement from too many churches. Churches are to heal sinners, are they not?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Originally posted by RiverRat1 View PostThis gets deep and way to PC.
Seems like most here agree that sin is sin..all equal.
What if this person was a serial killer? Just accept them in?
And FTR I agree with post #2 that it's a mental disorder. I'm not saying they don't need Jesus or to be loved..But just don't act like they are normal because it's PC to do so.
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Regardless of your thoughts on 'gender reassignment', the 'act' has already been done. Like anything else that has happened in a person's past, it is done. So, you have right here and now to deal with. The church should embrace him/her and offer any and all counseling he/she is willing to accept.
It would be a different situation if it were an on-going thing like an adulterer seeking church membership (I am intentionally staying away from the homosexual argument - sin versus not). If a person is continuing in a sin (unrepentant), they should not be accepted into membership.
This raises the issue of identification of sins. It is easy to (perhaps) identify someone who is a glutton because they are overweight. However, is that 'sin' any worse than a greedy person whose sin is not physically manifested for all to see?
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Originally posted by Johnny Dangerr View PostJust read an article how they tested over a thousand people that had or wanted a gender re-assignment, and 92% tested positive for a litany of mental problems.
I would put my hand on my gun and back up.
We have thought a lot about this recently. A semi distant relative is wanting to change.
Remember the South Park episode where the school teacher decided he was a Dolphin. It did not go well at all....
A little girl is not a Dolphin, Unicorn, or a Boy................
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Originally posted by RiverRat1 View PostThis gets deep and way to PC.
Seems like most here agree that sin is sin..all equal.
What if this person was a serial killer? Just accept them in?
And FTR I agree with post #2 that it's a mental disorder. I'm not saying they don't need Jesus or to be loved..But just don't act like they are normal because it's PC to do so.
Serial killer = criminal that needs to be turned in to Law enforcement.
Last I checked their were no penal codes for living that lifestyle
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