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    Elk Hunters, are tags to cheap?

    1. Today is Jan 11, 2022 and Idaho is sold out of nonresident general elk tags except for 90 or so tags in the Lolo (Lowlow) where there are no elk. Most of the least desirable tags didn't sell out until late last summer.

    2. I hunted Montana every year between 2014 and 2018. They were technically on a draw but you could just show up and be assured of a tag. Now you have to have at LEAST 1 point to draw.

    3. When I started building points in WY 14 years ago the general tag was something you could expect to get most years 100% guaranteed with 1 point. You need 4 to guarantee a tag now.

    This is hardly news to anyone that has been in elk hunting over the past two decades. Everyone blames celebrity hunters, youtube channels, and Joe Rogan. I haven't seen anyone discuss a solution. I think resident elk tags should be $200-400 and non resident tags should be $1500-3,000. Before you get your pitchforks out, think about it. I see several obvious benefits:

    1. This is the most obvious, tags would be available! Instead of hoping to get a tag, you could reasonably plan on one being available.

    2. Hunting would be better. Take Colorado for example. They sell OTC unlimited tags for branch antlered bulls. If you buy one of those tags you may be hunting VERY VERY few legal animals. Take a hypothetical unit with bull:cow of 15:100 and a poplution of 1000 elk. Out of those 150 bulls lets say half are legal, that leaves 75 elk out of a thousand AT THE BEGGINING of the season available for harvest. Here is another way to think of it. Every state out west could offer unlimited OTC bull elk tags for elk with 6 points or more per side, and the elk populations wouldn't suffer, so few of the elk meet the criteria.

    3. Increased revenue for conservation, tags sold would dip, but revenue would soar, without increasing fixed costs.


    Arguments I expect to hear are that we don't want to turn hunting more into a rich mans sport, decreased opportunity to get outside with a tag and experience, yada yada. First elk are not an 'opportunity' species. Just not. More deer are shot in Pennsylvania every year than LIVE in Idaho. Probably two or three counties in Texas could post higher harvest #s than population #s of elk up here. Second, for the Ma or Pa coming from out of state I would strongly attest are better served going on two succesful hunts per decade than a string of 10 unsuccessful ones. Lastly, have you looked at Texas lease prices that y'all are paying for 130-160" run-of-the-mill deer? Just yesterday saw a lease advertised for $9,000 that the biggest buck taken was 160s... that may be on the high end but folks are still paying $3-6K per year on glorified meat leases, albeit with friends in some cases.

    Edit: Used the wrong to,too,two in title and noticing several other grammar errors. sry.
    Last edited by BuckSmasher; 01-11-2022, 05:25 PM.

    #2
    I’m generally fine with this but we already have it in most states with landowner tags. That’s what I do when I want to bypass the draw.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by BuckSmasher View Post
      1. Today is Jan 11, 2022 and Idaho is sold out of nonresident general elk tags except for 90 or so tags in the Lolo (Lowlow) where there are no elk. Most of the least desirable tags didn't sell out until late last summer.

      2. I hunted Montana every year between 2014 and 2018. They were technically on a draw but you could just show up and be assured of a tag. Now you have to have at LEAST 1 point to draw.

      3. When I started building points in WY 14 years ago the general tag was something you could expect to get most years 100% guaranteed with 1 point. You need 4 to guarantee a tag now.

      This is hardly news to anyone that has been in elk hunting over the past two decades. Everyone blames celebrity hunters, youtube channels, and Joe Rogan. I haven't seen anyone discuss a solution. I think resident elk tags should be $200-400 and non resident tags should be $1500-3,000. Before you get your pitchforks out, think about it. I see several obvious benefits:

      1. This is the most obvious, tags would be available! Instead of hoping to get a tag, you could reasonably plan on one being available.

      2. Hunting would be better. Take Colorado for example. They sell OTC unlimited tags for branch antlered bulls. If you buy one of those tags you may be hunting VERY VERY few legal animals. Take a hypothetical unit with bull:cow of 15:100 and a poplution of 1000 elk. Out of those 150 bulls lets say half are legal, that leaves 75 elk out of a thousand AT THE BEGGINING of the season available for harvest. Here is another way to think of it. Every state out west could offer unlimited OTC bull elk tags for elk with 6 points or more per side, and the elk populations wouldn't suffer, so few of the elk meet the criteria.

      3. Increased revenue for conservation, tags sold would dip, but revenue would soar, without increasing fixed costs.


      Arguments I expect to hear are that we don't want to turn hunting more into a rich mans sport, decreased opportunity to get outside with a tag and experience, yada yada. First elk are not an 'opportunity' species. Just not. More deer are shot in Pennsylvania every year than LIVE in Idaho. Probably two or three counties in Texas could post higher harvest #s than population #s of elk up here. Second, for the Ma or Pa coming from out of state I would strongly attest are better served going on two succesful hunts per decade than a string of 10 unsuccessful ones. Lastly, have you looked at Texas lease prices that y'all are paying for 130-160" run-of-the-mill deer? Just yesterday saw a lease advertised for $9,000 that the biggest buck taken was 160s... that may be on the high end but folks are still paying $3-6K per year on glorified meat leases, albeit with friends in some cases.
      Would you feel and propose the same if you lived in Texas?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Pedernal View Post
        Would you feel and propose the same if you lived in Texas?
        Absolutely. If I still lived in Texas I would want to hunt elk every year and have a reasonable chance at getting one.

        Comment


          #5
          If 160” WT(low fence) is “run of the mill” to you……I want some of what your smoking!!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Passthrough View Post
            If 160” WT(low fence) is “run of the mill” to you……I want some of what your smoking!!
            160 is pushing it, not gonna derail my main point though. Especially if the 160 is a once a decade unicorn.

            Comment


              #7
              So you want to make it more expensive, so you can have fewer hunters, so you can have better hunting odds. Sounds like hunters helping hunters. I always feel that the market regulates itself.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by BuckSmasher View Post
                Absolutely. If I still lived in Texas I would want to hunt elk every year and have a reasonable chance at getting one.
                Not calling you a liar but I find it hard to believe.

                I believe states should have control of state lands and do as they see fit. Federal lands should not have a different price tag for hunting said land. So let’s make all federal land same price to everyone and than I concur that a price adjustment should be made.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I fully support fewer tags and better quality animals.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Pedernal View Post
                    Not calling you a liar but I find it hard to believe.

                    I believe states should have control of state lands and do as they see fit. Federal lands should not have a different price tag for hunting saiid land. So let’s make all federal land same price to everyone and than I concur that a price adjustment should be made.
                    Problem with that is the Feds don't manage the wildlife, states do. It is free for a non-resident to hunt elk with a camera in Unit 36 New Mexico on public land, last I looked a landowner tag was $6k.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      If you increase the price to what you propose you will likely not make up the revenue to do decrease the n hunters.

                      Comparing OTC public land elk hunt to lease WT hunts is a poor comparison.

                      Number of tags should be based on elk population, and they should find the sweet spot is n price to encourage hunting while still making revenue.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Too many people hunting, too many utv's, people running game cameras all year, outfitters selling too many hunts, shed hunting, etc.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by tx_basser View Post
                          Too many people hunting, too many utv's, people running game cameras all year, outfitters selling too many hunts, shed hunting, etc.
                          You could help that problem by quit hunting or do you mean other people?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Why don’t you get on a multi state system where you will draw a tag every year? It will take you three to four years to get there and then focus on one state every year after that. Pricing a tag to unaffordable rubs me the wrong way for some reason. I also do not chase elk in the mountains every year but I do put in for mule deer draw every year. Seems to me from what you are writing is that you have enough money for them to raise the tag price five times what it is now to create a scenario that benefits you and if so that is great but why don’t you just buy private landowner tags (unguided) and hunt elk that way?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by BuckSmasher View Post
                              Problem with that is the Feds don't manage the wildlife, states do. It is free for a non-resident to hunt elk with a camera in Unit 36 New Mexico on public land, last I looked a landowner tag was $6k.
                              Fine make it a resident fee to access federal land for the purpose of hunting elk…. Let’s make it even for everyone.

                              Comment

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