How do I know if I'm under bowed?

[DRT]

So it's been established I'm drawing around forty pounds. I realize that's pretty low. I know the advice of keeping it close etc but after shooting into a Rhinehart target last weekend I'm a little concerned about the lack of penetration. Like only 4". I know they are dense targets but dang . . .

[Junkers88]

Are you worried about getting penetration on an animal? 40lbs is plenty if you're hunting white tails or smaller hogs. I've read plenty of accounts where folks successfully hunt deer using sub 40lb traditional bows.

Usually the first indication of being under-bowed is over drawing but IIRC you've got two solid anchor points yes?


Richard.

[splitfinger]

Don't worry about shooting into foam. A 40# bow is adequate for deer and such but a big hog might be a different story. I shoot 45# recurves and longbows with a 2 blade scary sharp (shaving) broadhead with no issues regarding penetration on animals. take a 1 gallon milk jug and fill it with water. Shoot into it and you will get a similar result in shooting a deer, less any bone encountered. With proper arrow flight and a sharp broadhead, you will be just fine.

[Bisch]

So it's been established I'm drawing around forty pounds. I realize that's pretty low. I know the advice of keeping it close etc but after shooting into a Rhinehart target last weekend I'm a little concerned about the lack of penetration. Like only 4". I know they are dense targets but dang . . .

A whitetail or smaller pig will not even phase a well tuned arrow shot from a 40# bow with a razor sharp broadhead! Big pig with a shield, could be a different story.

There is no way to answer your question about being underbowed over the internet. Only you can decide for yourself if you need to/are ready to move up in poundage.

It is my firm belief that anyone should hunt with as much draw weight as they can shoot really well. For me, that happens to be right at 50#. For Buff that number is more like 70#.

Bisch

Bisch

[DRT]

I will keep it close for that and knowing my capabilities. The sage I bought is 45 at 28 so it will be about the same but I can upgrade limbs. I don't want to go all in on a bow until I get to my potential on draw weight. I also don't want to lose animals do to too low a draw.

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[mpotts]

Deer aren't much more than 10 inches wide so 4 inches you are still in the vitals

[Shiloh]

You'd be surprised by what Ashby was able to prive regarding penetration of a 45 pound bow when using the right arrow setup (mass over 650 grains, high mechanical advantaged single bevel broadheads, and ultra forward of center balance).

With the right set up - it will completely traverse the entrance rib and thorax of an asian buffalo.

Take the same bow and use a 3 bladed head of low mechanical advantage, low weight, and normal FOC and you will likely run into occassional penetration issues on deer and hogs on shots that are not your textbook broadside hits.

In other words - if I were you, I'd forget about speed. Tune for a set up using a heavy arrow with High FOC and use only single blade brodheads.

[Shiloh]

Not saying anything but the setup above will work - just saying that SUCH a setup had demonstrated the ability to penetrate far more than what you'll encounter with deer and pigs - if you use such a set up.

[Shiloh]

DRT:
Read this from Ashby. He's demonstrating how a 40# bow with ultra FOC and high arrow mass penetrates comparativley to an 82# bow with lessor FOC and mass.

http://www.grizzlystik.com/PR/Ashby_2008_Part3.pdf

[SwampRabbit]

A whitetail or smaller pig will not even phase a well tuned arrow shot from a 40# bow with a razor sharp broadhead! Big pig with a shield, could be a different story.

There is no way to answer your question about being underbowed over the internet. Only you can decide for yourself if you need to/are ready to move up in poundage.

It is my firm belief that anyone should hunt with as much draw weight as they can shoot really well. For me, that happens to be right at 50#. For Buff that number is more like 70#.

Bisch

Bisch

This.

[DRT]

I used to shoot Bear Razorheads. Quit shooting them for heads that leave a bigger hole like the Thunderhead.

[Shiloh]

Here's the link to all of his reports. After reading all of this material, I changed my set up to single bevel, high mechanical advantage, extreme foc, heavy
Mass arrows.
He makes a darn good point:
We can't control a lot of the variables once our arrow leaves the bow (poor hit, bone hit etc). But, we can control 100% the arrow and broadhead combination that we choose to shoot. Based upon his findings, an efoc or ufoc arrow with a single bevel broadhead provides you with the best chances to breach bone and penetrate whats beyond it if your shot is less than perfect. Penetration is key.

http://www.grizzlystik.com/Dr.-Ed-Ashby-W26.aspx

[DRT]

So it is rocket science. Those are a lot of numbers. I will read it more thoroughly later. I need to get my scale out I guess and gather some info on my arrows.

[Shiloh]

Is is science - Physics.
There is a noticeable difference in penetration on my targets between my former 550 grain arrows with 14.8% FOC compared to my new set ups - 675 and 715 grains with 25% and 27% FOC respectiveley.
I have not tested these setups on an animal yet, but hope to this coming weekend. I switched from 150 grain 3 blade heads to single bevel grizzly broadheads weighing 260 and 310 grains respectively. The information in his study is pretty darn comprehensive and is the closest to scientific that I have seen this far on arrow performance, so I' gonna try it.

[SwampRabbit]

So it is rocket science. Those are a lot of numbers. I will read it more thoroughly later. I need to get my scale out I guess and gather some info on my arrows.

Is is science - Physics.

Oh yeah, it is total Physics. Every bit of it. From arrow dynamic spice, to transfer of energy... to moment arms and FOC, animal reaction times, sound dampening, etc, etc.

There are a bunch of rules of thumb out there. Rules of thumb are estimations based on either basic Physics being applied, or experiments that can pretty much be backed up by basic principles of Physics.

The thing you have to decide is how much do you want to dive into it to prove to yourself why the majority of the "rule of thumbs" hold true and what tradeoffs were made in generalizing something a tad bit more complicated.

Personally, I have to balance how indepth I want to get. Being an engineer... I'll admit... I've done some research in my free time on the concepts and even worked out some stuff on paper. But at the end of the day, it is the feel and the skill of shooting the bow in a hunting situation that is what gets me going.

Modern bows (compounds) are designed to take a very complex chain of events and put the complexity into the bow design in order to reduce the amount of human compute power to achieve the task at hand (deliver the arrow to a spot.) Whereas traditional bows, the equipment is simple, and the human brain must learn and become the complex compouter that delivers the same result.