Equipment Guidelines For Trad

[Van/TX]

TBoT's main goal at these shoots is for everyone to have fun.

moah, sorry to pull a tiny piece out of your post but that tiny piece is the whole point. The current rules are too restrictive. Rick and others are trying to rectify that situation by opening up the fun to everyone who shoot stickbows. Would you be against that? Would TBoT be against that? Guess we'll just have to wait and see...Van

[RickBarbee]

How proud would it make you to know TBoT had a kiddo who grew up in it shooting a bow with all the whistles, and bells, all the way to young adulthood, and then wound up going to, and winning the Olympics, because we were supportive of his equipment choice?

Don't know about anyone else, but I would be pretty darn pleased, and proud of it.

Rick

[RickBarbee]

What Van said.

There is absolutely no reason that having rules, and equipment guidelines would make it any less of an enjoyable family event.

If you want to make it strictly a family outing, then don't call it a competition, don't keep scores, and don't give out awards.

Rick

[moah]

I volunteer my time to suport Traditional Bowhunters of Texas im not a paid officer. I shoot Trad equipment that I have to spend the time tuning my arrows to shoot off my bow just like most of the other TBoT member. if we follow your rules we wont need arrow builders we can call Tree Rivers and order some wood's off the shelf spined half way close. Our bowers will have to start drilling holes all over our bows so we can add gagets or just close there doors. thats going to help TBoT how? That is fun for the family? Why don't you and Mr Poole try to get ASA to add a LONGBOW WOOD class they might get a trad following then. We award belt buckles at our shoots.I do this because my hole family can go for a weekend spend time with great people shoot some wonderful course's and forget about the modern world. fun not competion fun for everyone not just the guy's taking home a check.

[moah]

The only class TBoT is thinking about adding is a composite selfbow class. And we don't want to have to enforce a page full of rules when most of the time we only have one person running the shoot.Todd please drop this BS it's getting old.

[RickBarbee]

I volunteer my time to suport Traditional Bowhunters of Texas im not a paid officer. I shoot Trad equipment that I have to spend the time tuning my arrows to shoot off my bow just like most of the other TBoT member. if we follow your rules we wont need arrow builders we can call Tree Rivers and order some wood's off the shelf spined half way close. Our bowers will have to start drilling holes all over our bows so we can add gagets or just close there doors. thats going to help TBoT how? That is fun for the family? Why don't you and Mr Poole try to get ASA to add a LONGBOW WOOD class they might get a trad following then. We award belt buckles at our shoots.I do this because my hole family can go for a weekend spend time with great people shoot some wonderful course's and forget about the modern world. fun not competion fun for everyone not just the guy's taking home a check.

I'm confused, because I sense some hostility in your comment, and I honestly don't understand why.
I also don't see where you see that anyone is going to twist your arm to change your bow, or your arrows.

Bowyers are in no way going to have to change their models so that their customers can comply. I just don't get that one at all.
Chose the style of bow you want to shoot, from the manufacturer of your choice who offers it.

You do your thing, and create a situation where others can do their thing in a different class.

Following the suggestions I have made here do not change, or lessen the shooters requirement to be proficient in any way. It just allows them to apply their skills of tuning, and shooting in a class of their choice.

I would love to see ASA do just what you suggest, but I'm not an ASA member, and my concerns are more pointed at, and for the Traditional Community as a whole.

TBoT is the only organization I have ever been, or interested in being a "Life Member" of, except for LSBA, but I've never been able to swing the LSBA life membership fee.

I applaud your service to TBoT, and appreciate it very much.
TBoT is a great organization.
I believe it can be even better.

I've never been a TBoT rep, or officer, but I've spent the last close to 30 years of my life in giving my time to help promote archery & bowhunting, which include being an official in several different capacities, and in helping with ads, and website construction for various clubs.
I know how hard it is, trust me.
Oh, and by the way - in that 30 years I've never been paid for it either, and have quite a bit of my personal income that went out of my pocket, and into the funding of those areas.

There is absolutely no reason for you, or anyone else to get upset, or mad at anyone for making suggestions (which by the way is all this is).
People disagree on things all the time.
Healthy, congenial, constructive discussion is the only way to solve any issue, or improve on any situation.

I saw/see where I believe TBoT can improve by creating a more friendly environment for all Trad Shooters, and be seen as a leader in that area.

It is the "Traditional Bowhunters of Texas".
It is not "The Traditional Shoot Off the Shelf Only Bowhunters of Texas", because there is no way you can justify calling someone a non Trad Bowhunter just because they use an elevated rest.
Classify them differently in competition, but they are just as Trad as you are.

About your mention of Todd Pool. Yes, Todd, and I are Friends, and agree a whole lot on this subject, but I can assure you I was thinking on this subject, and trying to think of ways to promote, and implement it long before ASA came along, and even longer before Todd started devoting his "volunteered time" to it.

Where I am concerned - this is all coming from a guy who prefers to shoot from the shelf, and prefers to shoot wood arrows when I am shooting a bow that I can get sturdy enough woods to shoot from it without weighing as much as a fiberglass fishing arrow.
Hmmmm - go figure.

Rick

[4feathers]

We award belt buckles at our shoots.[/QUOTE]

I have been lucky enough to receive some of these buckels (37 in my show case) and have enjoyed all of the shoots. This is the first year that I have been unable to compete and have not changed anything in my style of shooting are the way my bow is equipted. The only thing that has changed is some bodies interputation of "no moving parts".

[JEFFRO]

RICK, if you have been looking to get this type of rule set up in to place in texas and all across the nation,
why change t.b.o.t. start a new traditional shooters organization
and like ya said theres a bunch of folks out there

[RickBarbee]

RICK, if you have been looking to get this type of rule set up in to place in texas and all across the nation,
why change t.b.o.t. start a new traditional shooters organization
and like ya said theres a bunch of folks out there

Starting yet another organization, would completely defeat the purpose of what I would like to see happen.

It would only create that much more divisiveness, which is exactly what I would like to see avoided, and eventually alleviated.

Oh well - the suggestions have been made, and I've pretty much offered all I have to muster into the topic.

Only time will tell what direction the majority of the TBoT members want to take.

Rick

[Mike Javi Cooper]

I know I said I was done but...



Rick,

Maybe you or Van can help me understand why you want to change the TBoT rules. I know you’ve said it is because people are out there that shoot other equipment which you and they consider to be traditional equipment and that you feel they want into the club but feel ostracized by the current rules.

Please explain why is it wrong for a group of like minded individuals to make rules which exclude those of a different philosophy, help me understand because I don’t…

For example I’m not a member of P&Y although I have several animals which more than meet their criteria, why because I don’t agree with their exclusionary rules concerning equipment and membership. I’m not a member of the LSBA either, for many reasons going back decades. But I’m not trying to change either organization; they have a right to exclude people who do not enjoy the same purpose and ideology. Both of the above organizations do a lot of good for the sport of hunting and archery, and while I applaud their efforts my personal creed will not allow me to belong, as I see nothing to be gained by my joining for either of us.

I am a member of the NFAA and the ASA both of which pretty much control their respective games, I don’t agree fully with their doctrine either, especially the NFAA and the new regime, but I remain a member and follow their rules because I enjoy the game they control. When I no longer enjoy it for whatever reason, I will cease to pay my membership dues.

I guess I said all this to say, why change something that works; (and from what I see it is working) just to suit your ideals…

Instead why not work to improve the understanding of why we enjoy the sport as we do…

That will grow TBoT while preserving the concept it is built on. .. At least that's my opinion... I know the reason I joined TBoT is because of the very rules you want to change..

[SHORTY]

Good job rick you've opened some eyes; but some will never be opened;

[RickBarbee]

JAVI,

I can't say it any different than I have already said it in this thread.
If folks don't understand what I am trying to say by now I doubt they ever will.

All I can say is - Traditional archery, and bowhunting is not, and never has been specific to just one, two, or three genres of styles, and it should never be.

Go back and re read everything I have said so far. Look closely at it all.
If you do, you will either get it, or you won't.

"Traditional Bowhunters of Texas"
That name paints with a very broad brush.
I am suggesting, that we honor what the name implies.

Excluding, or disqualifying someone for using a plastic stick on rest is not honoring what our name implies, and that is just scratching the surface.

EDIT:
P.S.
I wish everyone would try to keep in mind, these are just suggestions.

Also take note - I have not, and will not get mad because someone disagrees
with these suggestions.

Some things in life don't need changing.
Some things in life do need changing, but won't ever be unless someone starts making suggestions.

If TBoT don't change, it will have no effect on me, and I'll continue to shoot in,
and enjoy their events as I have the opportunities to do so.
There are others however, who will not be able to take such an approach.

With that, I am done with my input, as I have nothing to add.
Like I said - I've made my suggestions. Now we'll just set back, and see where they go.

If you wish to discuss this directly with me, this thread isn't the place to do it,
and it is very easy to email, or PM me from this forum.

If you have something you think is constructive to add to the topic of this conversation,
then by all means post it.

Rick

[Mike Javi Cooper]

Rick, I understand the premise, I understand the reasoning I just don’t understand the why… P&Y excludes lighted nocks which have no effect on the killing of the animal but you don’t see a big push by folks to change that do you, even though it makes no sense and excludes hunters every year who otherwise could meet the criteria. To me it’s the same concept, TBoT has excluded a stick on rest and to you it makes no sense, to others including myself it makes perfect sense as the only reason to use a stick on rest is to make it easier to shoot well… same thing with a stabilizer or a flipper or a plunger button, or a metal riser, glass and carbon limbs the list goes on and on. The reason they all exist is that they make it easier to shoot well….

Somewhere there has to be a line drawn.. You want it one place, I want it another and I doubt that we will ever agree on this issue. But I’m sure that we can agree on many others..

The question still remains, how many of the members and potential members of the TBoT organization care one way or the other.. I think it would be interesting to see a nonbinding referendum on the issue.

[Deb]

Lets talk about ducks.

[Mike Javi Cooper]

Lets talk about ducks.

I'm sure someone will disagree, but I prefer the pintail as table fare.