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Old 06-10-2019, 07:30 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by enewman View Post
Not on deer. But Iíve had hogs stop a 500gr arrow. 500 to 550 is my go to weight.

One thing people donít think about when helping others is draw length and draw weight. I cannot do what a person can with same bow if they are 28Ē plus at 70lbs I shoot 66lbs at 26.5. Thatís another variable that should always be looked at. So how do I get same results. By adding weight.

Here at the bow store since last year we have built several people heavier and more foc arrows. Maybe 20 people. Most was an increase of 100 to 150gr. Only one came back in. He just didnít care for the trajectory. All others loved it.

So itís not for everyone that is for sure. I feel when we are talking about arrows we should not trash either side of it. Give data show the person any pros and cons. Then help build a good hunting arrow.

You are so right about longer draws length. 28" here. But hey, I have taken a lot of deer and hogs with my set up. The only time I don't get a pass through is faulty shooting on my part.


Yessir, I didn't like the "rainbow" trajectory either. I just shoot 50# bow, but it shoots 286fps, which translates to 67ke, which is more than enough for any big game animal in NA. Now would I shoot a Moose with my setup? Nope. Elk? Yep!
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:40 PM   #52
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You guys know way more about this than me but I do a lot of spot and stalk hunting where the animals are feeding along . Between ranging and taking the shot the animal could move 2 or 3 yards one way or the other.. I shoot 475 grain arrow . I have no intrest in shooting an arrow that 3 yards means a bad shot.. I shot an axis doe last week at 30 yards and my arrow busted when it hit the rock behind her..other than elephants or rhino why would you need 850 grains . Might as well build a spear and throw it at em.
Yessir. Agree
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:00 PM   #53
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I was testing an 850gr arrow the other day. yep, that one got me down right wet.
Yesss!

Just for giggles I put a 225gr field point on one of my 475gr fmjs.... flew like a mortar but good lawd it was quiet and hit HARD.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:49 AM   #54
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...other than elephants or rhino why would you need 850 grains .
Because we can...
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:01 AM   #55
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You are so right about longer draws length. 28" here. But hey, I have taken a lot of deer and hogs with my set up. The only time I don't get a pass through is faulty shooting on my part.
And this is why we shoot heavier arrows. When we make a bad shot, or the animals move enough, we can still get a pass through. We build for worst case scenario.

I'm not trying to convert you, shoot what you want; I'm just using your quote to illustrate a point.

We shoot at live, moving animals, poor shots will happen; for those that want to capitalize on those shots the answer is mass in the front of the arrow.

I will not tell anyone what truck to drive, but if they ask I'll recommend Ford every time!
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Old 06-11-2019, 02:56 PM   #56
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And this is why we shoot heavier arrows. When we make a bad shot, or the animals move enough, we can still get a pass through. We build for worst case scenario.

I'm not trying to convert you, shoot what you want; I'm just using your quote to illustrate a point.

We shoot at live, moving animals, poor shots will happen; for those that want to capitalize on those shots the answer is mass in the front of the arrow.

I will not tell anyone what truck to drive, but if they ask I'll recommend Ford every time!
ford what the heck. oh, wait I drive a ford. ford is the only way hahahaha hope you're doing good.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:21 AM   #57
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And this is why we shoot heavier arrows. When we make a bad shot, or the animals move enough, we can still get a pass through. We build for worst case scenario.

I'm not trying to convert you, shoot what you want; I'm just using your quote to illustrate a point.

We shoot at live, moving animals, poor shots will happen; for those that want to capitalize on those shots the answer is mass in the front of the arrow.

I will not tell anyone what truck to drive, but if they ask I'll recommend Ford every time!
Its been a long time since a faulty shot....I just equate rainbow trajectories with bad shooting, ran that horse and lost. I prefer, fast, quiet, accurate and sharp broadheads..
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:00 AM   #58
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Its been a long time since a faulty shot....I just equate rainbow trajectories with bad shooting, ran that horse and lost. I prefer, fast, quiet, accurate and sharp broadheads..
My backup bow is a 70 lb insanity that sounds like a weedeater when you shoot it.. I shoot 360 ish grain arrows out of it. Yesterday I added 150 grains to it just to see how much quieter it was.. it made no difference in the noise level but it changed the trajectory at 20 yards by 8 inches.. I think I'll stick with sharp broadheads and fast arrows myself.. but I'm not one of those people that think you need a 300 win mag for whitetail either.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:33 AM   #59
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After reading this & the foc post I got bored yesterday & picked up some GT Velocity & gonna play around lighter & decent foc arrows just for fun. I figure theyíll come in around 380 with 100gr head & 30gr behind the insert & a little over 400 with a 125 head & 20 behind the insert. Weíll see.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:03 AM   #60
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My backup bow is a 70 lb insanity that sounds like a weedeater when you shoot it.. I shoot 360 ish grain arrows out of it. Yesterday I added 150 grains to it just to see how much quieter it was.. it made no difference in the noise level but it changed the trajectory at 20 yards by 8 inches.. I think I'll stick with sharp broadheads and fast arrows myself.. but I'm not one of those people that think you need a 300 win mag for whitetail either.


If you sight your heavy arrows in at 20 yards and then shoot your light arrows, you wonít see that much difference.


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Old 06-12-2019, 10:33 AM   #61
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8 inches POI shift at 20 yards seems like a lot more than an extra 150grains of weight going on...
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:55 AM   #62
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8 inches POI shift at 20 yards seems like a lot more than an extra 150grains of weight going on...


I was thinking the same.


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Old 06-12-2019, 11:02 AM   #63
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I was thinking the same.


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Be happy to shoot it and take pictures ..I didnt measure it just eyeballing. But I am a carpenter so I'm usually pretty close..
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:19 AM   #64
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I'm not saying you are lying it's just a really dramatic POI shift for not a lot of change to the arrow. I've gone from a 125 to a 225gr point on 300 spine FMJs and didn't have that much POI shift at 30... that's weird
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:00 PM   #65
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I'm not saying you are lying it's just a really dramatic POI shift for not a lot of change to the arrow. I've gone from a 125 to a 225gr point on 300 spine FMJs and didn't have that much POI shift at 30... that's weird
No telling I only shot about 5 arrows so it could have been me .. I'm gonna play around with it a little more.. I'm shooting 475 gr on my new bow and it's only about 15 ft per sec slower on the chrono. So it very will could have been my fault..
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:54 PM   #66
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Ok I did some more shooting .. 29 inch vertix 75 lbs . blazer veins are right at 360 grains on the scale other arrows are 475 on the scale . Bow is sighted in with the heavier arrow. Shot at 20 yards .. the interesting thing is at 40 yards I had to use my 30 yard mark for the lighter arrows . That would give me more travel on my sight.. I have a problem with my anchor point being too high causing less travel for my sight. Tried to change it and I'm all over the place so I went back to the original anchor..https://i.imgur.com/8odBB0t.jpg not sure why it didnt post the picture and it looks like I was too close couldn't seeon my phone because it is so bright outside.. but its 5.5 or so inches difference
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:56 PM   #67
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8 inches POI shift at 20 yards seems like a lot more than an extra 150grains of weight going on...
I was thinking same. Buddy tested adding 200gr to arrow. With in 1Ē at 20 yards at 40 yards he used his 50 yard pin.
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:06 PM   #68
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Looks like I need to take my field point test kit out to the range this weekend... I wonder how an 800gr FMJ is gonna fly.. lol

I have to wonder how many dudes in TX hunting from blinds over feeders are actually shooting at ranges that a flatter trajectory would actually matter...
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:03 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by lovemylegacy View Post
You are so right about longer draws length. 28" here. But hey, I have taken a lot of deer and hogs with my set up. The only time I don't get a pass through is faulty shooting on my part.


Yessir, I didn't like the "rainbow" trajectory either. I just shoot 50# bow, but it shoots 286fps, which translates to 67ke, which is more than enough for any big game animal in NA. Now would I shoot a Moose with my setup? Nope. Elk? Yep!
So, you have a 28Ē dL, and shoot a 50lb bow, and are getting 67lbs of this K.E?? 286fps. What bow and what weight arrow are you shooting?
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:53 PM   #70
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So, you have a 28Ē dL, and shoot a 50lb bow, and are getting 67lbs of this K.E?? 286fps. What bow and what weight arrow are you shooting?
using 286fps and 67ke. should put arrow around 368gr. only a few bows will do that. at 28" and 50lbs.
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Old 06-13-2019, 12:28 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Jspradley View Post
Looks like I need to take my field point test kit out to the range this weekend... I wonder how an 800gr FMJ is gonna fly.. lol

I have to wonder how many dudes in TX hunting from blinds over feeders are actually shooting at ranges that a flatter trajectory would actually matter...


I can answer that question for you...

Absolutely zero.

Sound makes deer jump the string. The heavier arrow reduces sound, so less likely to jump the string. Inside 30 yards, I canít fathom speed making a noticeable difference, but sound I could.


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Old 06-13-2019, 02:31 AM   #72
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So, you have a 28Ē dL, and shoot a 50lb bow, and are getting 67lbs of this K.E?? 286fps. What bow and what weight arrow are you shooting?
Well calculate it for me, maybe Im wrong. 356 grain arrow, 286 fps. If I remember correctly it was 67
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:32 AM   #73
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So, you have a 28” dL, and shoot a 50lb bow, and are getting 67lbs of this K.E?? 286fps. What bow and what weight arrow are you shooting?
Double tap...oops
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:04 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by lovemylegacy View Post
Well calculate it for me, maybe Im wrong. 356 grain arrow, 286 fps. If I remember correctly it was 67
Like Newman said, few bows are capable of producing 17 more lbs of KE, than you are pulling at 28Ē. Just wondering what bow youíre shooting.
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:11 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by lovemylegacy View Post
Well calculate it for me, maybe Im wrong. 356 grain arrow, 286 fps. If I remember correctly it was 67
Your speed and arrow weight match up with post #2 but that's a 70# bow

Here's a calculator: https://www.realtree.com/kinetic-ene...tum-calculator
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:30 AM   #76
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I've never worried about speed my self.. I'm shooting a halon 30" 60# with nugent gold tips.. not sure how fast it shoots..
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Old 06-13-2019, 06:14 PM   #77
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Your speed and arrow weight match up with post #2 but that's a 70# bow

Here's a calculator: https://www.realtree.com/kinetic-ene...tum-calculator

65ke is good for a lot of game. I have zero chance of hunting Moose, Grizzly or Elk.

What compelled me to start shooting a 50# bow was age, shoulder pain and bowhunters my age and older still taking big game with bows lower weight than mine(at the time 68#.) Not just deer but Elk, Moose, Caribou, etc. So I committed, bought a Mathews Creed, 50# and I learned it shoots just as fast as my older "more powerful" bow.
I haven't looked back. Thought I was done bowhunting due to the pain.

So yeah 65ke is plenty.
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Old 06-13-2019, 06:14 PM   #78
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Your speed and arrow weight match up with post #2 but that's a 70# bow

Here's a calculator: https://www.realtree.com/kinetic-ene...tum-calculator
Thanx....handy little tool.
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Old 06-13-2019, 06:16 PM   #79
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65ke is good for a lot of game. I have zero chance of hunting Moose, Grizzly or Elk.

What compelled me to start shooting a 50# bow was age, shoulder pain and bowhunters my age and older still taking big game with bows lower weight than mine(at the time 68#.) Not just deer but Elk, Moose, Caribou, etc. So I committed, bought a Mathews Creed, 50# and I learned it shoots just as fast as my older "more powerful" bow.
I haven't looked back. Thought I was done bowhunting due to the pain.

So yeah 65ke is plenty.
I was simply noting that your 50# bow does what my 70# bow does (Mathews Z2).
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:49 PM   #80
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I was simply noting that your 50# bow does what my 70# bow does (Mathews Z2).
Yessir, I was doing the same. I have been shooting a Mathews Legacy till about 4 years ago when I went to the Creed. Man! The efficientcy of todays bows are phenominal.

The heavy arrow has merit, but where I hunt, the trajectory needs to be as flat as possible.
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Old 06-14-2019, 05:12 AM   #81
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Yessir, I was doing the same. I have been shooting a Mathews Legacy till about 4 years ago when I went to the Creed. Man! The efficientcy of todays bows are phenominal.

The heavy arrow has merit, but where I hunt, the trajectory needs to be as flat as possible.
I think thereís several that donít think your numbers are correct. Even I didnít realize the Creed was super speedy bow. I wish you would check poundage, arrow weight, and DL again to verify. Those are super numbers at 28-50. I donít know of many 28-60 bows that are capable of those numbers.
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:39 AM   #82
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I'm shooting an Elite E35 29" DL 70 lbs.

530 grain arrow, including 125 grain broadhead.

259 FPS

I'm thinking my arrow is a touch heavy and considering going to a 100 grain broadhead to get a bump in speed.

Thoughts and opinions on this, will the 25 grains make that much of a difference?

Thanks.
Why do u want to bump up the speed?
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:38 PM   #83
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I think thereís several that donít think your numbers are correct. Even I didnít realize the Creed was super speedy bow. I wish you would check poundage, arrow weight, and DL again to verify. Those are super numbers at 28-50. I donít know of many 28-60 bows that are capable of those numbers.
I build my own arrows, weight is written on ea arrow. Chrono-ed my arrow speed. I am 28.5" draw length, bow is 28" with a loop. Now, I have not checked the draw weight, just accepting what is displayed on the limbs, so it could be a little over or a little under. I just know its easy to draw and just as fast as my Legacy.
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Old 06-14-2019, 08:33 PM   #84
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I build my own arrows, weight is written on ea arrow. Chrono-ed my arrow speed. I am 28.5" draw length, bow is 28" with a loop. Now, I have not checked the draw weight, just accepting what is displayed on the limbs, so it could be a little over or a little under. I just know its easy to draw and just as fast as my Legacy.
Math doesnít work. Thereís no way a 50 lb Creed at 28Ē DL hits 286 fps with a 368 grain arrow.
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Old 06-14-2019, 08:47 PM   #85
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Math doesnít work. Thereís no way a 50 lb Creed at 28Ē DL hits 286 fps with a 368 grain arrow.
If that bow is drawing 1/2 long. meaning using a 28Ē mod but drawing 28.5 which can be easy for a Mathews. Using say a 8gr peep and 4gr loop.

Bow set to 50lbs the very best that bow can do is 262fps.

If bow was at 60lbs you might get 282fps. This will be at best.

This is what I come up with. All based off of 328 ibo number
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:21 PM   #86
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Math doesnít work. Thereís no way a 50 lb Creed at 28Ē DL hits 286 fps with a 368 grain arrow.
Ok
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Old 06-15-2019, 12:05 PM   #87
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If that bow is drawing 1/2 long. meaning using a 28Ē mod but drawing 28.5 which can be easy for a Mathews. Using say a 8gr peep and 4gr loop.

Bow set to 50lbs the very best that bow can do is 262fps.

If bow was at 60lbs you might get 282fps. This will be at best.

This is what I come up with. All based off of 328 ibo number
Just quick math I canít get it out of the mid 250ís @ 50#.... but Iíve been wrong before.

In the 280ís..... not at those specs. Something is unintentionally off Iíd bet.... but Iíve been wrong before
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Old 06-15-2019, 08:21 PM   #88
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Just quick math I canít get it out of the mid 250ís @ 50#.... but Iíve been wrong before.

In the 280ís..... not at those specs. Something is unintentionally off Iíd bet.... but Iíve been wrong before
Maybe I did something wrong. Cause I still thought my numbers where to high.
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Old 06-15-2019, 08:27 PM   #89
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I may have to stop shooting adult arrows..I keep blowing through the target with my 560gr Day Six 300 spines.

#heavyarrowproblems
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Old 06-15-2019, 08:56 PM   #90
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Math doesnít work. Thereís no way a 50 lb Creed at 28Ē DL hits 286 fps with a 368 grain arrow.
Maybe chrono is messed up. I was shooting some arrows the other day & my Full Throttle magically started shooting a 501gr arrow at 322fps. 😎😎😎
It maybe time for me to get a new chrono.
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Old 06-15-2019, 09:00 PM   #91
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Maybe chrono is messed up. I was shooting some arrows the other day & my Full Throttle magically started shooting a 501gr arrow at 322fps. 😎😎😎
It maybe time for me to get a new chrono.
Lemme guess 125# @ 36.7" DL?
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Old 06-15-2019, 10:02 PM   #92
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Lemme guess 125# @ 36.7" DL?


Seems legit.


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Old 06-16-2019, 05:37 PM   #93
rocky
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Originally Posted by Black-N-Red View Post
Maybe chrono is messed up. I was shooting some arrows the other day & my Full Throttle magically started shooting a 501gr arrow at 322fps. 😎😎😎
It maybe time for me to get a new chrono.
Probably. Iíve got his setup at 254 fps.
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Old 06-16-2019, 08:47 PM   #94
lovemylegacy
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Originally Posted by Black-N-Red View Post
Maybe chrono is messed up. I was shooting some arrows the other day & my Full Throttle magically started shooting a 501gr arrow at 322fps. 😎😎😎
It maybe time for me to get a new chrono.
Yeah, maybe. I will try and shoot through a chrono in the near future.

Does arrow spine assist in arrow speed?
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:14 PM   #95
muddyfuzzy
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Originally Posted by lovemylegacy View Post
Yeah, maybe. I will try and shoot through a chrono in the near future.



Does arrow spine assist in arrow speed?

No, launch speed is simply a function of an arrowís weight and the stored energy in the bow being imparted upon it. A 400 spine 450 grain arrow will have the same launch speed as a 300 spine 450 grain arrow shot out of the same bow.






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Old 06-17-2019, 12:10 AM   #96
lovemylegacy
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No, launch speed is simply a function of an arrowís weight and the stored energy in the bow being imparted upon it. A 400 spine 450 grain arrow will have the same launch speed as a 300 spine 450 grain arrow shot out of the same bow.






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Thanx
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Old 06-17-2019, 04:03 PM   #97
enewman
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Originally Posted by muddyfuzzy View Post
No, launch speed is simply a function of an arrowís weight and the stored energy in the bow being imparted upon it. A 400 spine 450 grain arrow will have the same launch speed as a 300 spine 450 grain arrow shot out of the same bow.






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I saw a article about arrows that stated that there is no reason to not shoot a stiff arrow and that a stiff arrow of same weight of a weaker arrow would be faster. There would be no lost in fps due to flex. Iíve tried. I never saw a gain
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Old 06-17-2019, 09:10 PM   #98
lovemylegacy
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I saw a article about arrows that stated that there is no reason to not shoot a stiff arrow and that a stiff arrow of same weight of a weaker arrow would be faster. There would be no lost in fps due to flex. Iíve tried. I never saw a gain
Thanx
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:06 AM   #99
cbd10pt
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Originally Posted by Wampuscat View Post
https://youtu.be/RjZH5Nx38wc

Iíve shown guys this video for years. Itís probably the most informative 10 minutes youíll get on arrow weight and velocity. Iíve rewatched it a number of times.
Does not account for spine.
Spine changes impact
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:06 AM   #100
cbd10pt
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Originally Posted by enewman View Post
I saw a article about arrows that stated that there is no reason to not shoot a stiff arrow and that a stiff arrow of same weight of a weaker arrow would be faster. There would be no lost in fps due to flex. Iíve tried. I never saw a gain
I think you would need to push this to an extreme to see a fps variation.
Perhaps a 500 spine 400 grain arrow 150 grains up front
Then a 300 spine 400 grain arrow 125 up front both from a 70# hard cam. Then measure the speeds at 25 yards.
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